"Lenin on the Moon"

Yeah I cannot believe some are disputing the fact that Lenin was a cold blooded murderer who wrote the playbook for all the left wing tyrannies making him directly and indirectly responsible for over 100 million deaths and his biggest victims were his own countrymen i.e Russians

As someone who has read fairly widely on the Russian Civil War and Lenin, allow me to interject a little.

I’m not quite sure it’s fair at all to point to every death that resulted from Leninist Vanguard tactics and pin that on Lenin directly - it’s pretty much like saying every death of the French Revolution and Wars of Napoleon (some few millions) are directly laid at the door of the founding fathers of the United States since they inspired the ideals of the French Revolution and subsequent events - a tad ridiculous, no? In the interest of scholarly rigor it’s probably also worth noting that the figure of 100 million seems to be cited largely from the Black Book of Communism, a book that even its creators later admitted was quite exaggerated. As you can see here, it’s still a controversial estimate, but more recent academics (for instance Professor Stephen Kotkin - someone who has wrote extensively on the Soviet Union and is writing a three part epic on Joseph Stalin) have revised the total. Kotkin himself puts it at around 65 million - still something quite significant but a far cry from 100 million+ of Cold War estimates.

Earlier, you mentioned that Andrew Jackson and co. did not kill as much as Lenin but if we want to look at the historical context, I think there’s a good case to be made that the brutal chaos of post WWI Russia was going to result in quite a number of deaths for pretty much any party that wished to win the civil war. Early in the Soviet regimes power there was massive issues with feeding the cities because peasants simply stopped handing in the grain. In addition to this, White armies roamed the countrysides and advanced from the South and East, Entente troops landed in Vladivostok and Murmansk and were pretty anti-Bolshevik, etc. The situation was quite ugly and I imagine if a George Washington found himself in a 20th century anarchy like Russia in 1919, he wouldn’t have acted too different. This isn’t to excuse the excesses of the Cheka or the massacres on both sides of the Civil War, but for perspective it’s at least worth noting that the Soviet State was under siege from the day of its inception and born into chaos where external allies like those in Berlin did not materialize - to keep the system afloat, difficult measures were obviously needed and it’s not fair to write this all down as simply a bloodthirsty maniac counting souls.

This video is pretty simple and has very bad Russian accents, but I think TedX made a decent historical defense of the actions of Vladimir Ilych that you should at least give a look, if not checking out some of the Civil War era biographies of the man. This is a quite controversial historical topic and I don’t think it can simply boil down to “Lenin was evil and caused every death of communism ever.” There’s clearly more nuance to the situation that one should explore before coming to an absolute judgement on a complex figure like Lenin.
 

Khanzeer

Banned
looks like they will just have to settle for Slave owning founding fathers to carve on the Moon.
how about Yuri gagarin and von braun togather ?

certainly less controversial than Lenin or Jackson :rolleyes:;)
 
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Khanzeer

Banned
As someone who has read fairly widely on the Russian Civil War and Lenin, allow me to interject a little.

I’m not quite sure it’s fair at all to point to every death that resulted from Leninist Vanguard tactics and pin that on Lenin directly - it’s pretty much like saying every death of the French Revolution and Wars of Napoleon (some few millions) are directly laid at the door of the founding fathers of the United States since they inspired the ideals of the French Revolution and subsequent events - a tad ridiculous, no? In the interest of scholarly rigor it’s probably also worth noting that the figure of 100 million seems to be cited largely from the Black Book of Communism, a book that even its creators later admitted was quite exaggerated. As you can see here, it’s still a controversial estimate, but more recent academics (for instance Professor Stephen Kotkin - someone who has wrote extensively on the Soviet Union and is writing a three part epic on Joseph Stalin) have revised the total. Kotkin himself puts it at around 65 million - still something quite significant but a far cry from 100 million+ of Cold War estimates.

Earlier, you mentioned that Andrew Jackson and co. did not kill as much as Lenin but if we want to look at the historical context, I think there’s a good case to be made that the brutal chaos of post WWI Russia was going to result in quite a number of deaths for pretty much any party that wished to win the civil war. Early in the Soviet regimes power there was massive issues with feeding the cities because peasants simply stopped handing in the grain. In addition to this, White armies roamed the countrysides and advanced from the South and East, Entente troops landed in Vladivostok and Murmansk and were pretty anti-Bolshevik, etc. The situation was quite ugly and I imagine if a George Washington found himself in a 20th century anarchy like Russia in 1919, he wouldn’t have acted too different. This isn’t to excuse the excesses of the Cheka or the massacres on both sides of the Civil War, but for perspective it’s at least worth noting that the Soviet State was under siege from the day of its inception and born into chaos where external allies like those in Berlin did not materialize - to keep the system afloat, difficult measures were obviously needed and it’s not fair to write this all down as simply a bloodthirsty maniac counting souls.

This video is pretty simple and has very bad Russian accents, but I think TedX made a decent historical defense of the actions of Vladimir Ilych that you should at least give a look, if not checking out some of the Civil War era biographies of the man. This is a quite controversial historical topic and I don’t think it can simply boil down to “Lenin was evil and caused every death of communism ever.” There’s clearly more nuance to the situation that one should explore before coming to an absolute judgement on a complex figure like Lenin.

I'm all for taking a nuanced look at history and certainly do not agree that whatever is preached in popular media is the gospel truth , however it should diminsh the fact that certain personalities in history were complict in pretty heinous crimes.Ofcourse we can haggle of the exact numbers and context but it does not mean we go out of our way to glorify and extol their virtues.
 
Nothing in that painting requires it to be Soviets.
It could be Communist Chinese.
It could be some weird nostalgia several centuries in the future.
It could be a private venture (centuries in the future) something like today's Crazy Horse project.

As people have pointed out, the planet in the background is hard to claim as Earth. So either this is on a moon around Neptune, as suggested, or one around a planet in an entirely different solar system, either way it's likely to be centuries in the future.
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Heck, it could BE one of a series of The 50 Top Mass Murders in Human History.
 
The face isn't that large, perhaps five metres. Mount Rushmore's faces are about 18m high. Probably not a huge task given a permanent lunar base.
 
That psychotic Tennessean isn't even the running for the top 100 for the 'most immoral mass murderers in modern history'

Sorry, he just didn't get that high of a bodycount, AJ's entire toll might total one of Lenin's slow months.

And how many do you think Adams killed, anyway?

Point is glorification and or not is usually a point of view based on a multitude of factors
 
First off, you obviously need a surviving Soviet Union.
Not necessarily. You could have this hypothetical project be carried out by the People’s Republic of China at some point in the future.

Sure, Lenin isn’t as important a figure in the national mythology of China as he was in the USSR but IIRC he is still venerated there, right?
 
BACK TO TOPIC

You want a Soviet "Mount Rushmore National Memorial" on Lunar surface
to accomplish you need allot Resources and Strong and Healthy Soviet Union, East Block and China.
Yes, it would take effort of all Communist Nation working together to accomplish this

Hardware:
You need Heavy Launch Rocket to get Cosmonauts, Equipment and Rover to the moon.
Select a Site after geological Study, install a Lunar Base and start transform cliff into Face of Lenin over next five-ten years

Rocket:
UR-700 modular Heavy Launch would be Ideal for task first for Landing mission to study lunar sites.
With additional Modules make the UR-900 with 240 metric tons payload into low orbit
or Equip UR-700A with Nuclear upper stage to bring 120 metric tons in moon orbit.

Lander:
LK-700 direkt lander, could carry 3, modified up to 6 cosmonauts
the cargo version could land Moonbase module and Rover/bulldozer at site.

Lunar Base:
Installation for 6 to 24 Cosmonauts, the Work crew for Face
several 2 man Luna rover/Bulldozer with a range of 200 kilometers, a speed of 5 kilometers per hour.
Special Drill and jackhammer to work on Face, pneumatic hammer are useless on Moon would be Electric power jackhammers.
Robots or better say automatic machines that help the workers on site to accelerate the Work.
 
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