Least socially conservative Reagan possible

And I agree with interpoltomo that the War On Drugs is ideologically different from social conservativism.

In terms of the political currents we're discussing, a dubious distinction. Certainly, if we're talking in the context of Reagan, Ed Messe, the driving force behind those Originalist SCOTUS pushes you cited, was also a confirmed war on drugs soldier. And a man who believed that hardcore porn certainly should be illegal, among much else. It's all a mutually compatible anti-Warren oort cloud.

You're aware of the racial issues in drugs policy and sentencing, right?
 
VJ:

Yes, I should have stated that there is a lot of overlap between people who oppose, say, abortion and pornography, and people who support the War On Drugs. And, of course, both groups would tend to favour the same SCOTUS judges.

But insofar as someone identifies(or, perhaps more likely, is identified by others) as being part of one group or another, he likely emphasizes different issues. I've read quite a bit of stuff by people from the religious right, and while they mention drugs here and there as part of All That Is Wrong With The World Today, it doesn't get nearly as much ink as do abortion and sex education.

And yes, I'm aware that sentencing in drug cases is disporportionately weighted against blacks and other minorities.
 
VJ:

Yes, I should have stated that there is a lot of overlap between people who oppose, say, abortion and pornography, and people who support the War On Drugs. And, of course, both groups would tend to favour the same SCOTUS judges.

But insofar as someone identifies(or, perhaps more likely, is identified by others) as being part of one group or another, he likely emphasizes different issues. I've read quite a bit of stuff by people from the religious right, and while they mention drugs here and there as part of All That Is Wrong With The World Today, it doesn't get nearly as much ink as do abortion and sex education.

And yes, I'm aware that sentencing in drug cases is disporportionately weighted against blacks and other minorities.

overoceans, what I was suggesting - what I was asking you to examine with the last line - was the notion that there's no clean distinction between the war on drugs, and social conservatism. That your definiton of the latter as being an anti-abortion phenomenon is unduly restrctive. Anachronistic, in fact.

The anti-Roe reaction only came after anti-busing, anti-desegregation, anti-CRA. The start of the war on drugs, Wallace '68. And Roe was, as David T pointed out upthread, something built on by segregationists.

That's the meaningful essential heart of social conservatism for the period we're discussing. What all else springs from.

It's odd we've got to two pages without anyone really touching on Reagan being anti-CRA.
 
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It's odd we've got to two pages without anyone really touching on Reagan being anti-CRA.

I agree. In fact, I'm surprised that it wasn't an issue when he ran for President or that modern historians don't emphasize this about his record.
 
I agree. In fact, I'm surprised that it wasn't an issue when he ran for President or that modern historians don't emphasize this about his record.

Then again plenty of Democrats were against it too included Democratic titans like Fulbright, Gore Sr., and Byrd. Some even filibustered against it. I've generally found that Democrats today don't like talking about any of this. Overall, being against the CRA is one of those dirty little aspects of American political history nobody really likes to talk about today.
 
@23

VJ: Well, I guess maybe this is question of terminology. The way I use the term "social conservative" is more or less synonymous with "Religious Right", ie. conservatives who frame their arguments specifically in religious terms, and are focused, moreso than other conservatives, on issues related to sexuality and support for state-sanctioned religious observance".

Such a definition would include someone like Jerry Falwell, but exclude Nelson Rockefeller, even though the latter in many ways pioneered the policies and tactics later identified with the War On Drugs.
 
@23

VJ: Well, I guess maybe this is question of terminology. The way I use the term "social conservative" is more or less synonymous with "Religious Right", ie. conservatives who frame their arguments specifically in religious terms, and are focused, moreso than other conservatives, on issues related to sexuality and support for state-sanctioned religious observance".

Such a definition would include someone like Jerry Falwell, but exclude Nelson Rockefeller, even though the latter in many ways pioneered the policies and tactics later identified with the War On Drugs.

That's how I see it too...
 
And I agree with interpoltomo that the War On Drugs is ideologically different from social conservativism. It's more what we would call Soccer Momism, to retrofit terminology from a few years later.
However, there were and still are many politicians who support the War on Drugs but think too many people go to college, want to abolish the Department of Education, opposed Obama's Title IX rape policy, and think it's ok for teenagers to smoke cigarettes and there's plenty of politicians who want to legalize marijuana but want college to be near-compulsory, supported Obama's Title ID rape policy, and want to incarcerate anyone who smokes a cigaratte under 21.
Then again plenty of Democrats were against it too included Democratic titans like Fulbright, Gore Sr., and Byrd. Some even filibustered against it. I've generally found that Democrats today don't like talking about any of this. Overall, being against the CRA is one of those dirty little aspects of American political history nobody really likes to talk about today.
Fulbright, Gore Sr., and Byrd never ran for President, and pro-Civil-Rights Republicans such as Ford and Dole had bad luck Presidentially. Reagan went on to be Governor of California and then President.
 
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Patco win. Employers use direct union smashing instead of restructuring to change the composition of the skilled white working class. Which the employers win. Thus general (rather than geographic and industry specific) emiseration that is doubled down in 1989. Potential "soccer moms" spend the 90s and 00s feeding speed or alcohol addictions. Rust suited America won't afford soccer moms.

Yours,
Sam R.
 
@23

VJ: Well, I guess maybe this is question of terminology. The way I use the term "social conservative" is more or less synonymous with "Religious Right", ie. conservatives who frame their arguments specifically in religious terms, and are focused, moreso than other conservatives, on issues related to sexuality and support for state-sanctioned religious observance".

Such a definition would include someone like Jerry Falwell, but exclude Nelson Rockefeller, even though the latter in many ways pioneered the policies and tactics later identified with the War On Drugs.

What I'm saying is, the religious right, in the way we generally receive that term is only a formation of the Reagan era, or at least Carter-leading-into-Reagan - more or less.

I have serious trouble with any definition of 'social conservatism', in a discussion like this, that apparently doesn't concede there was any such force before about 1980.

You talk about Reagan's SCOTUS dabblings, f'rinstance, while seemingly being unaware that the main argument against CJ Rehnquist, and probably the predominant part of opposition to AJ Bork, were on their civil rights records. So instead you have to introduce a thought experiment over an issue from another time, in DOMA.

I find it odd how you liked that post earlier talking about how southron segregationists latched onto Roe as a unifying issue, but you seemingly believe they only became dedicated social conservatives after they'd done that. I think that's a very odd approach.

You can't deal with the topic of this thread without talking about civil rights. Sorry, but no. Opposition to that is the biggest force of social conservatism in RR's formative years as a right-winger. Not a religious right which hadn't even taken shape as such yet.
 
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