Le petit dauphin survives

This was anyway an other age. Before Louis XIV developed the administrative/"absolute" monarchy.

Reading Louis XIV's will makes It obvious that a Regency would never again have been entrusted to the mother if the young king, be she queen dowager or not. Regency had become the matter of the men of the Bourbon family.

How the Hell do you get that? Louis XIV knew his will would be broken as soon as he was dead. He told the duc d'Orléans in his final interview with him that "there's my will, do as you see fit to protect the new king". Plus, by that point, there were no women who were married to his legitimate descendants (the dauphine died in 1690, the duchesse de Bourgogne in 1712, and the duc de Berri was dead, so his wife wasn't a factor, despite the fact that she still held the premier position in the dying king's court). This wasn't a house law that indicated that the mother of the king should be regent, a king's will couldn't change it. The first time that an all-male regency "bill" was actually enacted was after Louis XVI called the Assembly of Not-Ables
 
How the Hell do you get that? Louis XIV knew his will would be broken as soon as he was dead. He told the duc d'Orléans in his final interview with him that "there's my will, do as you see fit to protect the new king". Plus, by that point, there were no women who were married to his legitimate descendants (the dauphine died in 1690, the duchesse de Bourgogne in 1712, and the duc de Berri was dead, so his wife wasn't a factor, despite the fact that she still held the premier position in the dying king's court). This wasn't a house law that indicated that the mother of the king should be regent, a king's will couldn't change it. The first time that an all-male regency "bill" was actually enacted was after Louis XVI called the Assembly of Not-Ables

Errr ... What's the point ? I know all this. I just meant that, had she been alive, Adelaide of Savoy would never have been entrusted the regency.
 
Errr ... What's the point ? I know all this. I just meant that, had she been alive, Adelaide of Savoy would never have been entrusted the regency.

Why not? There was no precedent from blocking the mother of the king from serving as regent.

Due to being a foreigner?

Well, then no queen-mother of France could ever have served as regent, since the majority of them would've qualified as foreign.
 
No. It is just that times had changed. The notion of national interest was stregthening. And there were men on the ranks : those of the royal family.

Besides, the fact that Adelaide had spied against the country of her husband and that it was discovered before there was a need for Regency would have disqualified her as regent.

Last point : the Regency by women was not a rule. It was a political provision arranged because It seemed politically convenient to the dying king or to the royal family and the high nobility after the king sur death. For example, Louis XI decided that his elder daughter Ann would be regent for her younger brother Charles VIII. She was not specifically entitled to being regent.
 
The history of Regencies is not straightforward : the fact that the Queen-mother was Regent is quasi-enshrined since the late Middle Ages (it seemed Charlotte of Savoy was overlooked because of her illness : she died months after Louis XI). But the reality of the power was always contested by the closest male heir. Louis (XII) of Orléans v. Anne of Beaujeu, Antoine of Bourbon named Lieutenant General of the Realm in 1561, Henri of Bourbon was exiled in 1610, so in no position to gain advantage on Marie de' Medici, Gaston was nominated Lieutenant General by Louis XIII's will. So the idea of the princes as agents in the regency was not new in 1715.

The biggest change is the institution used by the regents to legitimized their power : till 1614, the States General were used, after 1643, the Parliament of Paris, telling a lot about the orientation of the french monarchy, even before Louis XIV's "absolute monarchy".
 
I think the biggest changes if Bourgogne survives is the fact his eldest son doesn't die, OTL Louis "after me, the deluge" XV never rules (nor is there a rush to marry him to the daughter of the former king of Poland) and probably has a very different character, and there are probably more children to come. No possible succession crisis, no Regency (and the Orleans family is farther and farther from the throne), Bourgogne was a very priggish devout Catholic (monkish before he was married) and so the frivolity of Louis XV's court doesn't happen. His brother, the Duc de Berri (who was cut from the same cloth as his easy-going father, the Grand Dauphin) probably has his death butterflied since its easy to imagine he wasn't in a hunting incident as in OTL. Bourgogne was also VERY close to his brother, Phillip V of Spain (one biographer said his brother Louis's death was the greatest blow of Philips's life) and their wives were sisters. The alliance between France and Spain would be airtight as long as both rule. And although Bourgogne was known to be a priggish Catholic, he was also before his death widely popular with much of the masses as they saw in him change from his grandfather.

The two wild-cards:
The Duke of Brittany who, surviving, becomes in TTL Louis XVI. What to make of his character? Who does he marry? With both parents alive he probably turns out very different than his brother, OTL Louis XV.

Marie-Adelaide. One of the most interesting personalities of the era. One of only two women Louis XIV was said to ever truly love (the other being his mother). She pretty much had the entire court - including her husband, her brothers-in-law, the Sun King, Madame Maintenon - wrapped around her finger. By all accounts she was a loveable scamp who got away with everything. Even her step-grandmother (the Duchess of Orleans, Liseleotte) was fond of her and she usually didn't like anyone at the French court. She was clearly devoted to her husband's prestige (and to him, after she became Dauphine) as she engineered the downfall of the Duc de Vendome. Her sister, the Queen of Spain, was also of a similar character. I would even wonder if Philip V marries the Parma heiress if Marie-Adelaide is still alive and has a say in it. Marie-Adelaide and Bourgogne were also close to James, the Old Pretender and to Louisa Maria (the Princess over the Water) who were in their little group. I would say there might be a greater assistance from France in 1715 to James or in 1745 to the Bonnie Prince.
 
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Alright now that is fascinating. Could we see a marriage between the duke of Brittany and a daughter of Philip?
 
I think the biggest changes if Bourgogne survives is the fact his eldest son doesn't die, OTL Louis "after me, the deluge" XV never rules (nor is there a rush to marry him to the daughter of the former king of Poland) and probably has a very different character, and there are probably more children to come. No possible succession crisis, no Regency (and the Orleans family is farther and farther from the throne), Bourgogne was a very priggish devout Catholic (monkish before he was married) and so the frivolity of Louis XV's court doesn't happen. His brother, the Duc de Berri (who was cut from the same cloth as his easy-going father, the Grand Dauphin) probably has his death butterflied since its easy to imagine he wasn't in a hunting incident as in OTL. Bourgogne was also VERY close to his brother, Phillip V of Spain (one biographer said his brother Louis's death was the greatest blow of Philips's life) and their wives were sisters. The alliance between France and Spain would be airtight as long as both rule. And although Bourgogne was known to be a priggish Catholic, he was also before his death widely popular with much of the masses as they saw in him change from his grandfather.

The two wild-cards:
The Duke of Brittany who, surviving, becomes in TTL Louis XVI. What to make of his character? Who does he marry? With both parents alive he probably turns out very different than his brother, OTL Louis XV.

Marie-Adelaide. One of the most interesting personalities of the era. One of only two women Louis XIV was said to ever truly love (the other being his mother). She pretty much had the entire court - including her husband, her brothers-in-law, the Sun King, Madame Maintenon - wrapper around her finger. By all accounts she was a loveable scamp who got away with everything. Even her step-grandmother (the Duchess of Orleans, Liseleotte) was fond of her and she usually didn't like anyone at the French court. She was clearly devoted to her husband's prestige (and to him, after she became Dauphine) as she engineered the downfall of the Duc de Vendome. Her sister, the Queen of Spain, was also of a similar character. I would even wonder if Philip V marries the Parma heiress if Marie-Adelaide is still alive and has a say in it. Marie-Adelaide and Bourgogne were also close to James, the Old Pretender and to Louisa Maria (the Princess over the Water) who were in their little group. I would say there might be a greater assistance from France in 1715 to James or in 1745 to the Bonnie Prince.

What would be absolutely scream-worthy hilarious (and of course butterfly genocide I guess) would be if Bourgogne were to survive to become king, Bretagne dies, OTL Louis XV still marries Marie Leszczynska and has more daughters than sons, but then dies at Metz or when Damien kills him, meaning that when Bourgogne dies, he's succeeded by the OTL Dauphin Louis-Fernand.
 
What would be absolutely scream-worthy hilarious (and of course butterfly genocide I guess) would be if Bourgogne were to survive to become king, Bretagne dies, OTL Louis XV still marries Marie Leszczynska and has more daughters than sons, but then dies at Metz or when Damien kills him, meaning that when Bourgogne dies, he's succeeded by the OTL Dauphin Louis-Fernand.
Interesting though questionable as to why Louis xv would marry his otl
Wife when the reasoning behind it as far as I can understand is not there
 
Interesting though questionable as to why Louis xv would marry his otl
Wife when the reasoning behind it as far as I can understand is not there

If his father the duke of Burgundy, then Dauphin, lived long enough and became king as Louis XV, then his son (OTL Louis XV) would never ever marry Marie Leczynska because this marriage OTL was very circumstancial. It took the d'une of Bourbon as Prime minister and be in a hurry to have the young king OTL Louis XV break engagement with Maria Anna Victoria of Spain and marry any adult wife with whom he would have male offsprings in order to avoid his rival, the duke of Orleans (son of the regent) becoming king if young Louis XV died (because he had a poor health).
 
If his father the duke of Burgundy, then Dauphin, lived long enough and became king as Louis XV, then his son (OTL Louis XV) would never ever marry Marie Leczynska because this marriage OTL was very circumstancial. It took the d'une of Bourbon as Prime minister and be in a hurry to have the young king OTL Louis XV break engagement with Maria Anna Victoria of Spain and marry any adult wife with whom he would have male offsprings in order to avoid his rival, the duke of Orleans (son of the regent) becoming king if young Louis XV died (because he had a poor health).
Alright so it is likely the Spanish marriage goes ahead?
 
Alright so it is likely the Spanish marriage goes ahead?

Only if Adélaïde plays no role in choosing her sister's replacement. If Luisa Maria survives but produces no daughters (or her replacement is barren or whatever), then as far as OTL Louis XV is concerned, he's in more or less the same situation as OTL.
 
Alright. So how does this sound:

In 1711, Louis duke of burgundy becomes dauphin of franxe when his father, also named Louis dies. The royal family avoid a potential scare, when a outbreak of measles hurts several members of staff but luckily does not get to the Royal family. In the same year, the new dauphins second son also named Louis is given the title duke of Anjou. Later on in 1712, Louis xiv the Sun King suffers a stroke that leaves him paralysed, placing The burden of ruling on the dauphin.
 
Alright. So how does this sound:

In 1711, Louis duke of burgundy becomes dauphin of franxe when his father, also named Louis dies. The royal family avoid a potential scare, when a outbreak of measles hurts several members of staff but luckily does not get to the Royal family. In the same year, the new dauphins second son also named Louis is given the title duke of Anjou. Later on in 1712, Louis xiv the Sun King suffers a stroke that leaves him paralysed, placing The burden of ruling on the dauphin.

Why not let them simply survive the measles/pox? Everyone loves a good miracle survival - see Louis XV and Metz. And I think Louis XIV can soldier on until 1715 like OTL, his health was incredibly robust IIRC, so much so that it wasn't until he was half-eaten away with gangrene in 1715 that he finally died.
 
Why not let them simply survive the measles/pox? Everyone loves a good miracle survival - see Louis XV and Metz. And I think Louis XIV can soldier on until 1715 like OTL, his health was incredibly robust IIRC, so much so that it wasn't until he was half-eaten away with gangrene in 1715 that he finally died.
Alright true.

So survival of measles, though seeing the dauphin do some proper ruling would be fascianting
 
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