Le Grand Empire Français: A French Empire Timeline

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Dylanperr, Jul 29, 2019.

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  1. Marse Lee Well-Known Member

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    But.... that's not the American Revolution in any sense. The revolution was a war to split with GB. This is nothing even remotely close to that. They're fighting with GB against France. I strongly advise changing the name of this conflict as the current name makes 0 sense.
     
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  2. Dylanperr Well-Known Member

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    Britain would help the colonists in North America move westward. This alternate American Revolution is against France rather than Great Britain.
     
  3. Marse Lee Well-Known Member

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    Again, that's not the American Revolution. Unless the colonies are under French control and are fighting a war to break free from their control. Which they aren't.
     
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  4. Bennett Human Time-Waster

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    A revolution or revolt is a conflict in which one is actively rebelling against the occupying government. The actors of the American Revolution were acting in rebellion against the British. Hence the name
     
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  5. Dylanperr Well-Known Member

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    I made corrections to my British North American War threadmark.
     
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  6. Dylanperr Well-Known Member

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    Hon Hon Hon.
     
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  7. Palantir Well-Known Member

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    Question : where did the wood for the Britsh ship came at the time OTL?
    From Canada or the Baltic?
    Because the Royal Navy could rapidly be at disadvantage ITTL without a releable access.
    ITTL Russia and Sweden would be reasonably pro-French so soon after the 7 years war.
     
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  8. Dylanperr Well-Known Member

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    The British North American War would take the place of the American Revolution in this alternate timeline and would be like a second French and Indian War because the Americans and the American Parliament would want to expand westward and would hope to weaken the French in North America. The reason why the American colonies would have their own parliament is because Britain in this alternate timeline would be that Britain would be more accepting and tolerant of American demands and the American colonists would want representation in their government and another reason is because the American colonists are more reliant on Britain due to the French in North America which could pose a big threat to them due to the French having some of their army stationed in North America ready to fight against them at any time.
     
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  9. Threadmarks: 1776-1778 Beginning Of The British North American War/King Louis War And The United States

    Dylanperr Well-Known Member

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    Beginning Of The British North American War/King Louis War And The United States
    Since the French Chief Minister Duc de Choiseul predicted an American Revolt after the Seven Years War in our timeline and even more so in this alternate timeline because it would be a full blown war rather than a revolt so the French would build up their navy and station a good amount of their military in North America to defend New France to from a possible conquest from the British and their Thirteen colonies in North America because New France unlike the British Thirteen Colonies didn't have a large population that could colonize and secure the colony against potential invaders so New France would be extremely reliant on Metropolitan France to supply New France and its colonies of Acadia, Canada, Hudson Bay, Louisiana, and Newfoundland with needed things such as necessary protection, supplies, and infrastructure because the colony was as developed and populated as much as the Thirteen Colonies.

    The year is 1775 and the Americans in the British colonies are being heavily taxed and not having representation and the Americans still wanting to be British subjects due to the French in North America. The British and the Americans would be more tolerant of each other and what they would want in their society so the colonists would send something resembling the Declaration of Independence on July 4, 1776 and the British would give the Americans their own Parliament based in Philadelphia. Since the British couldn't control America forever and America was self sustainable America would most likely be given a British Dominion status similar to what countries like Australia and Canada have in our timeline so they would still be apart of Great Britain but would be a self governing entity. The British would also give the Americans their own military and army divisions that they could defend themselves against the French in North America with less intervention from Great Britain.

    The Americans in the British Thirteen Colonies with their limited space and their fast growing populations are desperate to want to move westward from the eastern seaboard of North America to the American Midwest and further into the American South to expand their growing populations westward across North America. So there would be pressures from the American Parliament to conquer Louisiana as well as Canada and so the British colonies with the help of Great Britain would declare war against France and the French North American colonies to fulfill the American demand to move westward from the Thirteen Colonies and Great Britain wanting to get revenge against France and New France because of their victory in the Seven Years War.

    The British North American War would start in 1778 with Britain, British Thirteen Colonies, and the Iroquois Confederacy on one side while the French and New France on the other side. The British and their Thirteen Colonies on the eastern seaboard of the North American continent would declare war on the French and New France sometime around 1778 and the British North American War would start by the British and their colonies attacking westward and northward against the French and their colonies in Acadia, Canada, and Louisiana east of the Mississippi river. Since Spain was an ally of the French the Spanish would join the British North American War on the side of France a couple years later on in the war to help the French out in their war against Great Britain and their British Thirteen Colonies in North America.

    The British North American War had just started with Britain and their colonies declaring war on France and their colonies and the advantages of the French would be that the French have more indigenous allies along with having a large army stationed in North America to fight against the British. The British North American Army would have to hold back the large French army in North America until the British could come to their side and help them out during the war and another advantage the French would have is control of the Saint Lawrence, Great Lakes, and Mississippi rivers because the French have Acadia and Louisbourg which controlled the Saint Lawrence River and Louisiana which would give the French control of the Mississippi river because the colony was along the Mississippi River. The advantages the British would have is that they have a lot of settlers in the Thirteen colonies than the French had in New France and another British advantage would be that their North American colonies could be self sufficient due to their high population until Britain could come to their aid in their fight against France in North America. Both sides would also have very noticeable disadvantages such as the French having a dangerously low settler population very early on in the war in their North American Colony of New France which would make the colony vulnerable to an invasion and a British disadvantage would be that the British wouldn't have as much strategic points to attack from like the French did such as control of the Saint Lawrence, Great Lakes, and Mississippi rivers.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2019 at 12:57 PM
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  10. unprincipled peter Well-Known Member

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    I'm not going to naysay, as I've done enough of that already, and if you want a French and Indian War part 2, go for it, but I'm curious about this comment of yours. What was the nature of this prediction of revolt? If we're sticking with North America, it would have to be a revolt of French Americans against Britain, and/or a revolt of British Americans against Britain. Or, using the term 'revolt' incorrectly, a war of Britain against Spain. This latter one is hard to fathom as Britain has no major outstanding issues regarding Spain, at least not enough to warrant predicting a war. So far, nothing that would translate to F&I W pt 2.

    After the American Revolution Spanish minister Aranda foresaw the good possibility of Spanish colonies revolting. Are you confusing ministers and countries? I've not heard of Duc de Choiseul's prediction. Could you point me to a source.

    Another possibility I'm thinking is that post 7YW, Choiseul sought to rebuild French Military ability to fight a future war of revenge. Is this what you are referring to and now flipping the script with Britain now angling for the war of revenge?
     
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  11. Dylanperr Well-Known Member

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    I change the word revolt to war. I did my corrections. I said Duc de Choiseul predicted a American Revolt but it would be a full blown war in this timeline. My source for Choiseul's predictions of an American revolt/war. http://mentalfloss.com/article/502826/10-things-you-should-know-about-treaty-paris-1763
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
  12. unprincipled peter Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. Choiseul's alleged OTL prediction has little in common with this round of colonial warfare as you present it, though.
    In the long run, though, it's immaterial. It's logical enough for France to recognize the need to reinforce New France and to populate it, and it is logical for Britain/colonies to want to revisit the matter. Although you didn't specify, I presume the western borders of the British colonies have been settled in the treaty that ended the 7YW, since the border dispute is what kicked off the war. On the one hand, this would seem to end the matter, on the other hand it's easy enough to invent a causus belli to start another round. Whether Britain would start another full blown war over the matter and whether the colonies would support it (having been shafted by the mother country during all the previous wars) is debatable, but you've chosen to go that route so have fun with it.
     
  13. Dylanperr Well-Known Member

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    I got a threadmark called Population Boom For New France where the French send some of their peasants that were facing bad harvests to the Pays Des Illinois area in order to populate New France.
     
  14. Dylanperr Well-Known Member

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    The American colonists are more tolerant of British demands and the British are more tolerant of American demands because of the French Empire being the most powerful empire in this timeline.
     
  15. Threadmarks: 1776-1782 The British North American War/King Louis War

    Dylanperr Well-Known Member

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    The British North American War/King Louis War

    The Americans in the Thirteen Colonies want to expand westward from the Appalachians and weaken the French in North America. The British North American War would start around 1778 with ongoing pressures from the Americans in Parliament and the British wanting to get revenge on the French for winning the Seven Years War. The Americans would want to take the valuable trade routes and important strategic points from the French such as the Saint Lawrence River and the Mississippi River which the French controlled the ports to both of those rivers in through their colonies.

    The British North American War would start with the Americans hoping to take the Fortresses of Beausejour and Louisbourg away from the French in the French colony of Acadia because both of those Fortresses controlled the Saint Lawrence and the Americans would also want to take the city of New Orleans in the colony of Louisiana in order to gain control of the Mississippi River. Those would be very hard to do and the British and their American colonists would have very high odds of losing the war against the French because the French have a large army stationed in North America to protect New France against the enemies of the French and along with the arrival of peasants facing bad harvests in France would make the colony harder for the British in North America to hold and take from the French.

    Spain would join the British North American War/King Louis War on the side of the French because of British fears that the Spanish would want to ally with the French and attack the British southern colonies from the Spanish colony of Florida and the French colony of Louisiana. Florida especially East Florida would have very good farmland that the British would want and could use for cash crops and expand further British settlements in North America.

    The war was a defensive war meaning that all that France had to do was win and they could keep their colonies because there was no more British colonies the French could take and successfully hold especially the British Thirteen colonies. The war would end in a French victory because of the large battle hardened French army that was stationed in North America many years before the war even took place and would be ready to fight against the British and the American colonists as well as the French building up their navy as well.

    The 1782 Treaty Of Paris would state that
    • Britain would have to recognize the French Empire as the dominant colonial power in North America and India.
    • Britain would have to recognize the Spanish Empire as the dominant colonial power in Florida, the American Southwest, Central, and South America.
    • British Colonies would be limited to east of the Appalachians.
    • Gibraltar is given back to Spain.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2019 at 12:23 PM
  16. Dylanperr Well-Known Member

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    The flag of French North America I made.
    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Gabingston Well-Known Member

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    So, this is basically a worst case scenario for Britain.
    Love your flag BTW.
     
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  18. Dylanperr Well-Known Member

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    Yes it is.
     
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  19. Dylanperr Well-Known Member

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    I saw your French Carolina timeline and is that timeline about a French or French Huguenot colony?
     
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  20. Gabingston Well-Known Member

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    Regular French colony, this is 100 years after OTL's Huguenot colonies failed.
     
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