LBJ in 1960

sorry if this has been done before but, What if Lyndon Baines Johnson had gotten into the 1960 race early, easily beating JFK and smashing Nixon in the general, what does such a Presidency look like? who's in the Cabinet?

President: Lyndon Baines Johnson
Vice President:
Secretary of State:
Secretary of the Treasury:
Secretary of Defense:
Attorney General:
Postmaster General:
Secretary of the Interior:
Secretary of the Agriculture:
Secretary of Commerce:
Secretary of Labor:
Secretary of Health, Education and Welfare:

who does he put on the Court in 1962? does he get re-elected? 'Nam? Civil Rights? The Great Society?
 
I'm not sure how successful he'd be. He's still a Southerner, and Southerners were just ticket balancers to be made Vice President. But, he is LBJ.

For those who will faun over how experienced he is with Domestic Policy, keep in mind he was green in Foreign Policy. That's where JFK shined. LBJ dropped the ball in Vietnam, and a few other areas, due to lack of expertise with it.
 
keep in mind he was green in Foreign Policy. That's where JFK shined.

I don't think he really shone, Cuba was an endless mess, being unable to deal with Cuba, or let go of the Bay of Pigs (Operation Mongoose) lead to the Cuban Missile Crisis, every one almost dying in Nuclear fire isn't Shinny to me
 
I don't think he really shone, Cuba was an endless mess, being unable to deal with Cuba, or let go of the Bay of Pigs (Operation Mongoose) lead to the Cuban Missile Crisis, every one almost dying in Nuclear fire isn't Shinny to me

Cuba kept from turning into a crater because Kennedy had sense enough to ignore the people telling him to make it one, and simply put into place an embargo to cut off the island. He also had sense enough to make sure he didn't follow a knee jerk reaction to the Soviets like the militarists wanted him to. Kennedy followed pragmatism, and kept a cool head, and handled the situation masterfully, which kept the world in one piece. That was Kennedy's greatest asset, in my opinion: Pragmatism.

Bay of Pigs, mind you, was also not Kennedy's baby. It was an Eisenhower era plan, which the CIA assured him would work. It didn't, and regardless of air cover and the Marines, probably wouldn't because Castro was already prepared. The fact that the CIA was training exiles to invade was published in a newspaper already, and leaked like a drainy faucet. So he rounded up dissidents (the kind the invasion was supposed to meet up with and/or rally to rebel), and prepared his men for a US invasion.

When it became apparent the US was not going to dislodge Castro from Cuba, Kennedy was seeking rapprochment in private with Castro to neutralize the island and normalize relations.
 
I'm not sure how successful he'd be. He's still a Southerner, and Southerners were just ticket balancers to be made Vice President. But, he is LBJ.

For those who will faun over how experienced he is with Domestic Policy, keep in mind he was green in Foreign Policy. That's where JFK shined. LBJ dropped the ball in Vietnam, and a few other areas, due to lack of expertise with it.

The part in bold is the main problem with electing LBJ President in 1960. Of course, if everything goes Johnson's way in the chaos that follows, you could cheat and have Richard Pavlick end President elect Kennedy's life in December 1960. Of course, I'm not entirely sure what the outcome of that would be, but LBJ is as likely as anyone else to emerge as President under that sad circumstance.

What matters here, in terms of foreign affairs at least, is the extent to which Senator Kennedy could be said to have foreign policy experience, to a greater extent than Majority Leader Johnson, prior to January 20th 1961. My impression is that in 1961 President Kennedy was relatively green where foreign policy was concerned, or that he at the very least gave the impression of so being. The implication of the second part of the quote here is that Senator Kennedy was not inexperienced in foreign policy when he was elected, and indeed he was more experienced in that field than his running mate, the Senate Majority Leader, was. I'll leave it to those more versed with Kennedy's biography to answer whether that's actually true or not. But, perhaps I misread your statement. Maybe your saying that Kennedy showed a greater interest and inclination towards foreign policy than Johnson did historically, and that the problem isn't so much experience as it is interest and temperament.
 
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LBJ wouldn't "smash" Nixon- in fact he would probably have trouble in the Rust Belt and the North generally.

CR moves a bit quicker if LBJ's elected, ditto for the GS. Foreign affairs is more of a crapshoot.
 
LBJ wouldn't "smash" Nixon- in fact he would probably have trouble in the Rust Belt and the North generally.

CR moves a bit quicker if LBJ's elected, ditto for the GS. Foreign affairs is more of a crapshoot.

I agree wholeheartedly with your first point. Kennedy defeated Nixon largely by casting himself as a totally different kind of politician. Johnson wouldn't be able to do that, and would largely run on the same New Deal orthodoxy that the Democrats had been rallying around since the 1930s. It would be a very close election between two very vicious and pragmatic candidates. If there was a debate, it would probably favor Nixon. It's also quite likely that the media would portray the race as one between a young and successful Nixon and a wily wheeler-and-dealer in Johnson. If I had to make a prediction, it would be a narrow Nixon victory on the strength of an improved showing in the Rust Belt. The map might look something like this:
genusmap.php


Nixon/Hruska(R): 51% of the Popular Vote, 282 Electoral Votes
Johnson/Symington (D): 49% of the Popular Vote, 255 Electoral Votes
 
hcallega
Would JFK campaign for LBJ in Massachusetts ? I think so. Would that be enough to sway that state to LBJ and have him win the election? Pretty good chance. Why Hruska for GOP VP? The man was a moron. Makes Nixon's real choice of Lodge look super outstanding? Plus Nebraska ALWAYS voted for Nixon, all 5 times. Hell they loved him after Watergate. Now LBJ would he be forced to pick a guy from the North? A reverse of what really happened? LBJ-JFK . Or HHH like in 64?
 
I have LBJ winning Massachusetts. And Hruska was just a stand-in for conservative western Republican. Symington makes sense to me as a defense specialist to compliment the domestically focused-LBJ.
 
hcallega
Would JFK campaign for LBJ in Massachusetts ? I think so. Would that be enough to sway that state to LBJ and have him win the election? Pretty good chance. Why Hruska for GOP VP? The man was a moron. Makes Nixon's real choice of Lodge look super outstanding? Plus Nebraska ALWAYS voted for Nixon, all 5 times. Hell they loved him after Watergate. Now LBJ would he be forced to pick a guy from the North? A reverse of what really happened? LBJ-JFK . Or HHH like in 64?

I think the map is using blue for Nixon and red for LBJ, as was pretty much the custom before 2000.
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
I think the map is using blue for Nixon and red for LBJ, as was pretty much the custom before 2000.
I still see Illinois going Dem in '60; election fraud doesn't just go away because Jack the K didn't get the nom.
 
Also, for the cabinet, where might LBJ protege John Connally end up? Chief of Staff? Secretary of the Navy as in RL? Maybe something higher?
 
I dont see Daley going all in for LBJ the way he did for JFK. Daley cranked up the fraud when it was to his advantage, as when he had to get rid of Ben Adamowicz as states attorney and republican challenger in early 60's. He went all in for JFK as a fellow Irish Catholic in an era when white ethnicity and religion were still important, and he knew even without the fraud he could get the local white ethnic community excited. And he knew he could call in his chits with the Kennedy's. Daley and the Chicago democrats would not find Texan LBJ at all simpatico, and as one crook sizing up another crook he would know that LBJ was only all in for himself. Without the Chicago fraud and also without the genuine enthusiasm JFK evoked in the Chicago bungalow belt, Nixon carries Illinois.
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
I dont see Daley going all in for LBJ the way he did for JFK. Daley cranked up the fraud when it was to his advantage, as when he had to get rid of Ben Adamowicz as states attorney and republican challenger in early 60's. He went all in for JFK as a fellow Irish Catholic in an era when white ethnicity and religion were still important, and he knew even without the fraud he could get the local white ethnic community excited. And he knew he could call in his chits with the Kennedy's. Daley and the Chicago democrats would not find Texan LBJ at all simpatico, and as one crook sizing up another crook he would know that LBJ was only all in for himself. Without the Chicago fraud and also without the genuine enthusiasm JFK evoked in the Chicago bungalow belt, Nixon carries Illinois.
Daley's role in giving Kennedy Illinois is overblown and has more to do with Hizzoner's reputation than anything else.

The more important electoral high jinks were in southern Illinois, and JFK himself gave more credit to Jack Stelle and his boys than Daley for winning the state for him.
 
I have maybe a alternate senario how LBJ become President in 1960:

on December 11, 1960 (30 days after election on 8 november)
Richard Paul Pavlick, a 73-year-old former postal worker try to kill JFK.
as a suicide bomber by crashing his dynamite-laden 1950 Buick in to into Kennedy's vehicle.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...IBAJ&pg=7111,2522541&dq=richard+pavlick&hl=en

had Pavlick be successful, not JFK but LBJ was sworn in as the 36th President on January 20, 1961.
 
I have maybe a alternate senario how LBJ become President in 1960:

on December 11, 1960 (30 days after election on 8 november)
Richard Paul Pavlick, a 73-year-old former postal worker try to kill JFK.
as a suicide bomber by crashing his dynamite-laden 1950 Buick in to into Kennedy's vehicle.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...IBAJ&pg=7111,2522541&dq=richard+pavlick&hl=en

had Pavlick be successful, not JFK but LBJ was sworn in as the 36th President on January 20, 1961.

In that one book that just came out, that's one of the scenarios.
 
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