Whatever happens with this Compensated Manumission scheme, the slaves won't be immediately freed. As AH pointed out they do need skills besides manual labor. Soldiering could be one of them but I was thinking of trade work as well. I don't want this to end up like England in the 18th-19th century. Where if you were Scot or Irish you went into the Army simply because you have no other options. Also I think an army made up entirely of armed freed ex-slaves would scare the shit out of the south. I think a term a service to help the govt. recoup its monetary investment is practical and makes sense in addition to the bonds idea which Hamilton will certainly suggest to Laurens. Then the scheme becomes less about immediate unearned freedom and more about we (blacks) earned this just like you whites did in the Revolution we served our 10,15,20 yrs whatever and we built this nation just like you did. I think that thought will go longer towards an equal society than manumission without it. One thing we should remember is that because of this voting may still be a white only privilege for a long time. We may just earlier Jim Crow
Laurens lives
- Thread starter GreatScottMarty
- Start date
well that was part of the thinking of having them resettled to other parts of the country. you could end up with a Wyoming type situation that gives the Franchise to blacks just so they can become a state. If you've got a couple regiments of black troops you can have them building roads west, bridges, training horses, cooks, etc. kinda a pseudo-Army Corp of Engineers.
The idea of having them instrumental at some major battle was that it would show that black men are just as capable at fighting for their country as white men. (though there were a lot of free blacks that fought in the Revolutionary War)
The idea of having them instrumental at some major battle was that it would show that black men are just as capable at fighting for their country as white men. (though there were a lot of free blacks that fought in the Revolutionary War)
Good Idea, I like the Engineers idea alot.
For my fans right now I am just posting notes for comment and will be beefing it up into a serious TL with Encylcopedia entries, and prose and the whole bit. but right now I am taking ideas and refining them and posting notes. I appreciate all the ideas people spit out and will try to give credit where credit is due in the final product.
Personal Life & Business Life 2 1785-1786
John Laurens has never seen New York City or been to the North since the ARW decides take to take a trip. This fortunate for him, he gets to combine business with pleasure. John has just been elected to serve as the representative to the 7th Confederation Congress located in New York. This allows the Col. to discuss matters of personal importance with another illustrious Col. namely Alexander Hamilton. Here John meets his namesake the second eldest Hamilton child a son of just one named Laurens Schuyler Hamilton [1]. More important to both men, is there ongoing scheme. While in New York, John attends a meeting of the New York Manumission Society and has an opportunity to meet with some notable New York abolitionists, John Jay among them. One more matter of importance for John while seeing the sites in New York. John asks Alexander to help him invest in Alexander’s new bank (the Bank of New York). John being a prominent slaveholder as well as slave trader and merchant understands how money works and moves through an economy not as well as Hamilton but has a notion of what invested capital can do. John’s continued business interests in New York will bring him back to the city many times in the coming years. Laurens asks Hamilton for advice on a business agent for him while he is S.C. Hamilton immediately suggests an able associate but former rival of Laurens’ father, John Jay. Laurens having met Jay independently of his father at a NYMS meeting earlier in the fall decides to listen to his friend and contract Jay to manage his interests in New York.
John takes his position as one of South Carolina’s representatives to the 7th Confederation Congress. John finally sees with his own eyes what Hamilton was talking about. He spends the next year trying to bring about changes to the Articles among them the power to tax and a standing army of some use. Laurens quits the post in early August in disgust. When he resigns his position he say to then Confederation President Richard Henry Lee, Laurens notable passage from this letter:
… Our Union is bound to fail and we are sure to return to England’s strangling embrace if we do not take more certain steps to wed ourselves to each other. Such steps as, National Taxation, Central Govt. and a professional Army; Only such steps will ensure our ability to remain a free independent state and to beholden to European Monarchy. [2]
Laurens then writes to the South Carolina Legislature explaining his decision and tells them he plans to continue his work as a Representative of the Confederation by joining Hamilton and Madison’s convention in Annapolis, Maryland. In this letter he copies the letter to Lee and goes on to say this:
… If our Sister State Virginia sees the need for a stronger Union we must as well. It is in the interests of our State and South Carolinians as a whole to wish for a stronger union and a better govt.
Laurens attends Annapolis, and is pained to see that his fellow southerners don’t see the need for reform of the Confederation. While he was only in Annapolis for 3 days he forged useful contacts and came to admire James Madison and Edmund Randolph of Virginia as well as John Dickinson of Pennsylvania.
Laurens leaves the Convention after it is recessed on the 14th of Sept. and proceeds to Mt. Vernon with Hamilton to discuss many things with as they put “His Excellency”
[1] Born a daughter in OTL Margaret Church Hamilton.
[FONT="][2] Conjecture of the Author. Let me know if it sounds to modern, and I will endeavor to change it. [/FONT]
John Laurens has never seen New York City or been to the North since the ARW decides take to take a trip. This fortunate for him, he gets to combine business with pleasure. John has just been elected to serve as the representative to the 7th Confederation Congress located in New York. This allows the Col. to discuss matters of personal importance with another illustrious Col. namely Alexander Hamilton. Here John meets his namesake the second eldest Hamilton child a son of just one named Laurens Schuyler Hamilton [1]. More important to both men, is there ongoing scheme. While in New York, John attends a meeting of the New York Manumission Society and has an opportunity to meet with some notable New York abolitionists, John Jay among them. One more matter of importance for John while seeing the sites in New York. John asks Alexander to help him invest in Alexander’s new bank (the Bank of New York). John being a prominent slaveholder as well as slave trader and merchant understands how money works and moves through an economy not as well as Hamilton but has a notion of what invested capital can do. John’s continued business interests in New York will bring him back to the city many times in the coming years. Laurens asks Hamilton for advice on a business agent for him while he is S.C. Hamilton immediately suggests an able associate but former rival of Laurens’ father, John Jay. Laurens having met Jay independently of his father at a NYMS meeting earlier in the fall decides to listen to his friend and contract Jay to manage his interests in New York.
John takes his position as one of South Carolina’s representatives to the 7th Confederation Congress. John finally sees with his own eyes what Hamilton was talking about. He spends the next year trying to bring about changes to the Articles among them the power to tax and a standing army of some use. Laurens quits the post in early August in disgust. When he resigns his position he say to then Confederation President Richard Henry Lee, Laurens notable passage from this letter:
… Our Union is bound to fail and we are sure to return to England’s strangling embrace if we do not take more certain steps to wed ourselves to each other. Such steps as, National Taxation, Central Govt. and a professional Army; Only such steps will ensure our ability to remain a free independent state and to beholden to European Monarchy. [2]
Laurens then writes to the South Carolina Legislature explaining his decision and tells them he plans to continue his work as a Representative of the Confederation by joining Hamilton and Madison’s convention in Annapolis, Maryland. In this letter he copies the letter to Lee and goes on to say this:
… If our Sister State Virginia sees the need for a stronger Union we must as well. It is in the interests of our State and South Carolinians as a whole to wish for a stronger union and a better govt.
Laurens attends Annapolis, and is pained to see that his fellow southerners don’t see the need for reform of the Confederation. While he was only in Annapolis for 3 days he forged useful contacts and came to admire James Madison and Edmund Randolph of Virginia as well as John Dickinson of Pennsylvania.
Laurens leaves the Convention after it is recessed on the 14th of Sept. and proceeds to Mt. Vernon with Hamilton to discuss many things with as they put “His Excellency”
[1] Born a daughter in OTL Margaret Church Hamilton.
[FONT="][2] Conjecture of the Author. Let me know if it sounds to modern, and I will endeavor to change it. [/FONT]
The Meeting With Washington 1786-
Laurens and Hamilton head south in early September arriving at the end of September, they plan on calling a new Constitutional Convention in 1787 to meet in Philadelphia with all 13 colonies to attend, but they need to make sure one man makes an appearance. George Washington is crucial to their efforts to form a more perfect union. Hamilton and Laurens hope to centralize authority in a strong central govt. and get rid of the patchwork and unworkable framework that is the Articles of Confederation. Washington has been keeping abreast of developments in the Confederation and is worried about the debts that are building and the recent events of Shay’s rebellion. Washington agrees to attend the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia. They also tell of their plan for slavery, Washington having taken a tour of his western properties in 1784 realized that he needed tenants and suggested an addendum to their plans. He noticed that his western lands were being squatted on and so he offered this idea: after we buy the slaves we will free them and send them to the west to settle so we will be rid of them and they will not be interfering with our union. They will live in the new territories of the Northwest after their 20-year term of service.
The Next 7 months
[FONT="]Over the next 7 months, Hamilton and Laurens go ahead and enlist the assistance of James Madison, George Washington, and Ben Franklin to ensure this event is well attended and is taken seriously throughout the colonies. The same people attend as in OTL except Laurens takes the place of John Rutledge, who instead becomes Gov. of South Carolina. As the Convention begins to gather in Philadelphia in May 25th of 1787. [/FONT]
Laurens and Hamilton head south in early September arriving at the end of September, they plan on calling a new Constitutional Convention in 1787 to meet in Philadelphia with all 13 colonies to attend, but they need to make sure one man makes an appearance. George Washington is crucial to their efforts to form a more perfect union. Hamilton and Laurens hope to centralize authority in a strong central govt. and get rid of the patchwork and unworkable framework that is the Articles of Confederation. Washington has been keeping abreast of developments in the Confederation and is worried about the debts that are building and the recent events of Shay’s rebellion. Washington agrees to attend the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia. They also tell of their plan for slavery, Washington having taken a tour of his western properties in 1784 realized that he needed tenants and suggested an addendum to their plans. He noticed that his western lands were being squatted on and so he offered this idea: after we buy the slaves we will free them and send them to the west to settle so we will be rid of them and they will not be interfering with our union. They will live in the new territories of the Northwest after their 20-year term of service.
The Next 7 months
[FONT="]Over the next 7 months, Hamilton and Laurens go ahead and enlist the assistance of James Madison, George Washington, and Ben Franklin to ensure this event is well attended and is taken seriously throughout the colonies. The same people attend as in OTL except Laurens takes the place of John Rutledge, who instead becomes Gov. of South Carolina. As the Convention begins to gather in Philadelphia in May 25th of 1787. [/FONT]
A very interesting timeline you have here. I like the direction you're taking it in, and I'm eager to see how you handle the Constitutional Convention.
Consider me subscribed!
Consider me subscribed!
A very interesting timeline you have here. I like the direction you're taking it in, and I'm eager to see how you handle the Constitutional Convention.
Consider me subscribed!
Nice first suBScription. The constitutional convention is quite the writer's block. I am throwing in some dialogue for the first time.
May 25th – September 17 1787
The Constitution Convention and many measures in OTL pass including the Connecticut Compromise and the 3/5ths Compromise. When the issue of the Slave Trade is begun, Laurens stands up and speaks for the first time except when seconding Hamilton’s motions. Which was odd because he was the only other to agree with Hamilton’s Plan for a lifetime Chief Executive. Laurens goes on to make the first great speech of his political life:
“As many of my esteemed colleagues know that I have profited from the traffic of persons, I despise this horrid institution with all the fiber of my being. My family has gained great position because of this practice. I have seen with my own eyes what happens when a Negro is torn from his Negress, and I have seen when their children are taken from them; this practice cannot stand. I will tell you gentlemen this, we need to end this peculiar practice because it is proper, because men should be free, because no one deserves to be bought and sold like horses. Currently we judge these men, yes I call them, by the size of their, the strength of their back, fitness of their teeth, and the size of their cocks (this cause quite the laugh in the hall, until Washington stared gravely at the primary offender Pierce Butler of South Carolina, who promptly silenced himself). Please Gentlemen, I speak of a serious issue this involves our very souls. (Hamilton squawked Hear Hear and got another reprove from his Excellency). We need to end the perfidious practice immediately or we are not worthy to hold the name of a Republic…. (he concludes) My fellow delegates and slaveholders, I think we all realize I have the most to lose by this proposition, I whose family has made a fortune on the Trade, if we ban it I will be the first to shutter the Trading House doors and leave that despicable practice behind.”
The 3 hour speech was moving and persuasive. After Laurens sits down, many of the Southern delegates are swayed by his moving speech. Some remain unconvinced, including fellow South Carolinian, Pierce Butler. Butler an unrepentant slaveholder and former British officer, plays right into Laurens’ hand. Pierce Butler lectures for 45 minutes on the subject finally taking his seat at around 8 pm. Laurens rises one more time, to say one thing:
“I guess Mr. Jefferson was right, when said that slavery was forced on us by King George. Even now a King’s Officer presumes to lecture us on the importance of that unfortunate institution.”
George Washington gavels the catcalls down, realizing what his former aide-de-camp said is dueling words. Jumps in before either man can present a challenge to the other. Madison records Washington’s only speech at the convention for posterity.
Washington: “Gentleman, we know we came here to form a union that would allow us to be free and to protect us from foreign tyranny. We must also protect ourselves from domestic tyranny. The issue we debate here is as contentious as any we have faced, yet we have an opportunity to make ourselves free and to lay the framework for a great nation.” Washington turns to face Laurens and then looks towards Butler fixing them each with his famous gaze and continues, “Whatever persons may feel on this issue remember this that we are deciding the future of our nation and that future will not be bloody, it will be marked by peace and prosperity. I insist that any future debate on this subject be amicable and gentlemanly as befits this august body”
Laurens turns to Washington and replies “hear, hear”
Washington then adjourns for the evening with a lot of huff and debate. His roommate in Philadelphia Hugh Williamson who is representing N.C. congratulates Laurens; he thanks Laurens for such an impassioned speech against the slave trade and laments the fact that they can’t do more now.
Laurens replies, “Thank you sir, but we will deal with our peculiar institution in time as well, first we must make sure we do not expand it, and secondly, that we do not have the means to expand it and by this I mean no more importation or trading of slaves.”
When the Convention is gaveled into order in the morning. The stage is set for the language on the slave trade.
OTL: The migration or importation of such persons as any of the states now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a tax or duty may be imposed on such importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each person.
ITTL:
Laurens proposes this language to the body at large for a vote.
The migration or importation of such persons as the states think proper to allow, shall be prohibited by the Congress in the year one thousand eight hundred, and a tax or duty may be imposed on the importation not exceeding 20 dollars for each person.
Butler again rises in objection saying:
“So you shall tax us to death then? And refuse the property that we left England to ensure that we could govern as we see fit?”
Hamilton rises to reply,
“ Sir, we do not remove your right to this property, we remove your right to trade it from place to place. People are not corn, or cotton; they are people. Surely a gentleman such as yourself can still provide you and yours even with a mere 20 dollar charge. Even then you are still allowed to keep your property for as long as you wish and you still have 11 years to trade and move them as you see fit.”
Debate continues for several more hours until Franklin moves that they vote on the constitution with the Laurens Language on the Trade. It passes!!! Barely.
The Constitution was signed by most of the same people as in OTL with some notable exceptions:
[FONT="]Pierce Butler and Richard Dobbs Spaight join the list of OTL not signers. Most of the rest of 1788 goes as our TL EDIT: one notable difference is that SC does not sign but NC does. There reasons for not signing are because of the slave trade language. It pained Laurens considerably to see his beloved not sign the Constitution. Next time 1789. and Washington’s first year. [/FONT]
The Constitution Convention and many measures in OTL pass including the Connecticut Compromise and the 3/5ths Compromise. When the issue of the Slave Trade is begun, Laurens stands up and speaks for the first time except when seconding Hamilton’s motions. Which was odd because he was the only other to agree with Hamilton’s Plan for a lifetime Chief Executive. Laurens goes on to make the first great speech of his political life:
“As many of my esteemed colleagues know that I have profited from the traffic of persons, I despise this horrid institution with all the fiber of my being. My family has gained great position because of this practice. I have seen with my own eyes what happens when a Negro is torn from his Negress, and I have seen when their children are taken from them; this practice cannot stand. I will tell you gentlemen this, we need to end this peculiar practice because it is proper, because men should be free, because no one deserves to be bought and sold like horses. Currently we judge these men, yes I call them, by the size of their, the strength of their back, fitness of their teeth, and the size of their cocks (this cause quite the laugh in the hall, until Washington stared gravely at the primary offender Pierce Butler of South Carolina, who promptly silenced himself). Please Gentlemen, I speak of a serious issue this involves our very souls. (Hamilton squawked Hear Hear and got another reprove from his Excellency). We need to end the perfidious practice immediately or we are not worthy to hold the name of a Republic…. (he concludes) My fellow delegates and slaveholders, I think we all realize I have the most to lose by this proposition, I whose family has made a fortune on the Trade, if we ban it I will be the first to shutter the Trading House doors and leave that despicable practice behind.”
The 3 hour speech was moving and persuasive. After Laurens sits down, many of the Southern delegates are swayed by his moving speech. Some remain unconvinced, including fellow South Carolinian, Pierce Butler. Butler an unrepentant slaveholder and former British officer, plays right into Laurens’ hand. Pierce Butler lectures for 45 minutes on the subject finally taking his seat at around 8 pm. Laurens rises one more time, to say one thing:
“I guess Mr. Jefferson was right, when said that slavery was forced on us by King George. Even now a King’s Officer presumes to lecture us on the importance of that unfortunate institution.”
George Washington gavels the catcalls down, realizing what his former aide-de-camp said is dueling words. Jumps in before either man can present a challenge to the other. Madison records Washington’s only speech at the convention for posterity.
Washington: “Gentleman, we know we came here to form a union that would allow us to be free and to protect us from foreign tyranny. We must also protect ourselves from domestic tyranny. The issue we debate here is as contentious as any we have faced, yet we have an opportunity to make ourselves free and to lay the framework for a great nation.” Washington turns to face Laurens and then looks towards Butler fixing them each with his famous gaze and continues, “Whatever persons may feel on this issue remember this that we are deciding the future of our nation and that future will not be bloody, it will be marked by peace and prosperity. I insist that any future debate on this subject be amicable and gentlemanly as befits this august body”
Laurens turns to Washington and replies “hear, hear”
Washington then adjourns for the evening with a lot of huff and debate. His roommate in Philadelphia Hugh Williamson who is representing N.C. congratulates Laurens; he thanks Laurens for such an impassioned speech against the slave trade and laments the fact that they can’t do more now.
Laurens replies, “Thank you sir, but we will deal with our peculiar institution in time as well, first we must make sure we do not expand it, and secondly, that we do not have the means to expand it and by this I mean no more importation or trading of slaves.”
When the Convention is gaveled into order in the morning. The stage is set for the language on the slave trade.
OTL: The migration or importation of such persons as any of the states now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a tax or duty may be imposed on such importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each person.
ITTL:
Laurens proposes this language to the body at large for a vote.
The migration or importation of such persons as the states think proper to allow, shall be prohibited by the Congress in the year one thousand eight hundred, and a tax or duty may be imposed on the importation not exceeding 20 dollars for each person.
Butler again rises in objection saying:
“So you shall tax us to death then? And refuse the property that we left England to ensure that we could govern as we see fit?”
Hamilton rises to reply,
“ Sir, we do not remove your right to this property, we remove your right to trade it from place to place. People are not corn, or cotton; they are people. Surely a gentleman such as yourself can still provide you and yours even with a mere 20 dollar charge. Even then you are still allowed to keep your property for as long as you wish and you still have 11 years to trade and move them as you see fit.”
Debate continues for several more hours until Franklin moves that they vote on the constitution with the Laurens Language on the Trade. It passes!!! Barely.
The Constitution was signed by most of the same people as in OTL with some notable exceptions:
[FONT="]Pierce Butler and Richard Dobbs Spaight join the list of OTL not signers. Most of the rest of 1788 goes as our TL EDIT: one notable difference is that SC does not sign but NC does. There reasons for not signing are because of the slave trade language. It pained Laurens considerably to see his beloved not sign the Constitution. Next time 1789. and Washington’s first year. [/FONT]
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Keenir
Banned
how did I miss this thread?
he wanted, among other things, several African-American units in the Revolutionary War.
he wanted, among other things, several African-American units in the Revolutionary War.
Sporadic updates. I got 10 month old who learned to walk and so I gotta watch him during what used to be TL time.
EDIT: I am trying to avoid a typical Ameriwank, but it is hard considering how close of friends Laurens and Hamilton were. Not to mention Laurens is considered to have been a check on his tempermental partner
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One thing to note I changed the Constitutional Conventions in the states. North Carolina DOES sign. South Carolina DOESN'T. The reason is over the Slave trade language, Laurens plan was especially popular in areas that were less slave oriented such as NC because it was bound to remove power from the southern planters eventually. South Carolina does not sign because people had more invested in slavery than others. Surprisingly, people were not impressed Laurens' comments at the national convention and did not think he would move to leave the slave trade business. Only time will tell.
Next Time on "Laurens Lives" Washington's 1st Cabinet and Assumption.
Next Time on "Laurens Lives" Washington's 1st Cabinet and Assumption.
nice balance here. Plausible change, not too far.
Heh. Didn't know that then. Understand that now.
Good TL, BTW.
Thanks
. Check out my Alternate 1st Cabinet Thread. I'd love to hear a critique. You seem to have a pretty good knowledge of the Early Republic. . Do you or anyone have an opinion on the a timetable for Butterlies to Europe? and Asia? Is it Days? Months? Years? up to the author? is there any kind of rule of thumb?
Keenir
Banned
am enjoying this ATL.
congratulations!
family takes precedence and priority.
well, my thought on what a successful Laurens would've resulted in, might not be Ameriwank....the start of a caste system. (slave blacks and soldier blacks, and neither wants the other)
sort of like what you say below
...as where it would start.
congratulations!
family takes precedence and priority.
well, my thought on what a successful Laurens would've resulted in, might not be Ameriwank....the start of a caste system. (slave blacks and soldier blacks, and neither wants the other)
sort of like what you say below
...as where it would start.
Hmmm a caste system. I can say I didn't think of that. I was thinking more along lines of Booker T Washington's speech to Atlanta businessmen basically saying that blacks should earn respect by learning a trade and "earning white respect" (I think I might have the time and place wrong but that was the basics as I remember from 20th cent. history in H.S.). I was planning on having a lot of time built into any intiatives I create ITTL. 20+ years.
Keenir
Banned
makes sense.
here was my logic: keeping the slaves and black soldier separate would defuse any tension among plantation-owners and pro-slavery folks; and after ten years or a generation, the black soldiers wouldn't want their kids associating (or tarred by association) with slaves.....and then there's all the Irish and Italian immigrants who need a place.
I'll watch this thread of yours regardless of where you take it. you're doing good.
that'll be true no matter what.
1789-1791 the Administration Domestic Policy
South Carolina does not ratify the Constitution until 1790 when it becomes apparent that only them, Vermont and Rhode Island. With the last 3 states joining by 1790. The Union would be complete. While the Constitutional Conventions were going full bore; John Laurens excused himself back to SC to help with the fight there. Meanwhile in New York, George Washington was being sworn in on Mar. 4 1789 as the 1st President of the United States and New Yorker John Jay as the 1st Vice-President of the United States. Immediately Washington with help of his secretary William Jackson[1] begins to assemble a group of advisors. Washington recognizes that the most pressing needs are to present a strong face to the world and to shore up the economy.
Washington issues Executive Orders and begins to form his Departments:
He decides on these:
Sec. of War: Henry Knox
Sec. of State: John Adams
Attorney General: Edmund Randolph
Sec. of the Treasury: Alexander Hamilton
While Washington’s cabinet has a northern tilt to it. Washington makes it obvious that the South is not forgotten as every single Ambassador is from the South. Thomas Jefferson returns to France in 1790. Hugh Williamson who is remembered for getting the Constitution passed on the first ballot in North Carolina, and Charles C. Pinckney is sent to Spain in 1790 after the ratification of the Constitution in South Carolina.
Minister to France: Thomas Jefferson
Minister to England: Hugh Williamson
Minister to Spain: Charles C. Pinckney
His/Your Excellency as the Congress decides to call Washington, against his wishes the General, who always preferred Mr. President; has the utmost confidence in his advisors and Foreign Ministers. The 1st Speaker of the House, John Laurens of South Carolina insisted upon the title of His/Your Excellency. Many representatives at time considered it to royal and pompous to refer to the president of the Republic as you would royalty. William Jackson would recall the good laughs that Washington, Laurens and Hamilton would have over the title. Speaker Laurens’ election to the position was itself fraught with controversy at the time. Speakers were supposed to serve two year terms but with the addition of Rhode Island and South Carolina in time for the January, 1790 session of Congress, there was a move to call for a vote on a new Speaker to replace Frederick Muehlenberg of Pennsylvania. While there was lots of hay made over the decision initially, Muehlenberg threw up his hands saying, “faster we get on to being Americans and stop worrying about titles the better off we will be.” Laurens as Speaker of the House of Representatives would direct Hamilton to provide various reports on the state of finances for the young Republic.
Hamilton would deliver these reports speedily and efficiently. [2] Hamilton’s first report on the Public Credit was received by some member of the house as old news and by some members as Monarchism reincarnated. The Chief of the second faction was James Madison. Madison helped to author the influential Federalist Papers with Hamilton and the occasional assist from John Jay. Madison seemingly saw the error of his ways. Madison began to insist upon something he called “Discrimination” meaning that the value of bonds paid to ARW veterans should be paid to the original owners and not the current owners of the bonds and should be paid at 100% of face value not the 25% that was the going rate for speculators. Hamilton argued back during a meeting of the House that this was nonsense and would surely ruin the already precarious finances of the Republic. While Laurens said nothing publicly, although privately in favor, and very little generally during the 3 day testimony of Sec. Hamilton and quickly realized he was presiding over a deadlocked Congress. Laurens hit upon an idea while walking along the Broadway to Hamilton’s home in the summer of 1790. Laurens turned around and proceeded up town to Vice-President Jay’s resident to discuss his idea. Arriving and Jay’s door at the 10pm on 20th and proceeded to lay out his plan to gather Madison, himself, Jay and Hamilton in Jay’s fireside room and begin as Laurens termed it, a series of “fireside chats” to discuss what could be done about reconciling Assumption and Discrimination. Laurens unknown to him and in what would only become obvious to historians years later managed to broker one of the first deals in American Legislative History. Laurens agreement in what became known as the “Fireside Dicker” managed to get Madison and Hamilton to agree to the installation of Hamilton’s Assumption plan and in return Virginia would acquire the national capital. [3] This agreement would serve to do several things, it enhanced the power of the Speaker of House of Representatives, would serve to increase the influence of the Vice Presidency in domestic politics, and finally and perhaps unintentionally lead to the beginning of party politics in the United States. While the first two consequences were obvious right away while the third would not become obvious until the election of 1796.
Madison wrote to his friend Thomas Jefferson informing him of the deal. Jefferson aghast at what had happened and what Jefferson termed as the, “encroachment of Monarchist forces on our Republic bent on the overthrow of our free society. ” Jefferson’s next letter, which arrived in late 1791, informed Washington of his desire to resign. Washington penned an acceptance and assigned Governeur Morris with delivery and to the position of Minister to France. 1790 proceeded as planned while testifying to House on the state of international relations; Adams reported his 1785 experience with the Dey of Algiers and the worsening situation on the Continent and in particular France as reported to him in regular correspondence with Thomas Jefferson. Upon hearing of this as well as Hamilton’s testimony on the economic impact, Knox’s testimony regarding the feasibility of detaching soldiers to deal with the issue. Congress finally agreed to begin laying down the hulls for three new ships, the United States, Constitution and the Liberty. In the spring of 1790 they agreed to give Flag Rank to John Paul Jones now Commodore Jones and instructed him to return home and take command of the American Navy.
[1] William Jackson was a real person and was the secretary of the Constitutional Convention. Madison’s notes outstripped his notes about the Convention, as for this TL many of Jackson’s notes and recordings about Washington’s administration will survive (I am unaware if they do in OTL but for our purposes they will provide a bit of light into Washington’s administration)
[2] Hamilton’s landmark first Report on Public Credit will be virtually unchanged from OTL as will his other reports such as Report on Manufactures and the 2ndnd report and Manufactures as we approach those years. Report on Public Credit. More on the 2
[3] OTL’s Dinner Table Compromise.
[FONT="]
[/FONT]
South Carolina does not ratify the Constitution until 1790 when it becomes apparent that only them, Vermont and Rhode Island. With the last 3 states joining by 1790. The Union would be complete. While the Constitutional Conventions were going full bore; John Laurens excused himself back to SC to help with the fight there. Meanwhile in New York, George Washington was being sworn in on Mar. 4 1789 as the 1st President of the United States and New Yorker John Jay as the 1st Vice-President of the United States. Immediately Washington with help of his secretary William Jackson[1] begins to assemble a group of advisors. Washington recognizes that the most pressing needs are to present a strong face to the world and to shore up the economy.
Washington issues Executive Orders and begins to form his Departments:
He decides on these:
Sec. of War: Henry Knox
Sec. of State: John Adams
Attorney General: Edmund Randolph
Sec. of the Treasury: Alexander Hamilton
While Washington’s cabinet has a northern tilt to it. Washington makes it obvious that the South is not forgotten as every single Ambassador is from the South. Thomas Jefferson returns to France in 1790. Hugh Williamson who is remembered for getting the Constitution passed on the first ballot in North Carolina, and Charles C. Pinckney is sent to Spain in 1790 after the ratification of the Constitution in South Carolina.
Minister to France: Thomas Jefferson
Minister to England: Hugh Williamson
Minister to Spain: Charles C. Pinckney
His/Your Excellency as the Congress decides to call Washington, against his wishes the General, who always preferred Mr. President; has the utmost confidence in his advisors and Foreign Ministers. The 1st Speaker of the House, John Laurens of South Carolina insisted upon the title of His/Your Excellency. Many representatives at time considered it to royal and pompous to refer to the president of the Republic as you would royalty. William Jackson would recall the good laughs that Washington, Laurens and Hamilton would have over the title. Speaker Laurens’ election to the position was itself fraught with controversy at the time. Speakers were supposed to serve two year terms but with the addition of Rhode Island and South Carolina in time for the January, 1790 session of Congress, there was a move to call for a vote on a new Speaker to replace Frederick Muehlenberg of Pennsylvania. While there was lots of hay made over the decision initially, Muehlenberg threw up his hands saying, “faster we get on to being Americans and stop worrying about titles the better off we will be.” Laurens as Speaker of the House of Representatives would direct Hamilton to provide various reports on the state of finances for the young Republic.
Hamilton would deliver these reports speedily and efficiently. [2] Hamilton’s first report on the Public Credit was received by some member of the house as old news and by some members as Monarchism reincarnated. The Chief of the second faction was James Madison. Madison helped to author the influential Federalist Papers with Hamilton and the occasional assist from John Jay. Madison seemingly saw the error of his ways. Madison began to insist upon something he called “Discrimination” meaning that the value of bonds paid to ARW veterans should be paid to the original owners and not the current owners of the bonds and should be paid at 100% of face value not the 25% that was the going rate for speculators. Hamilton argued back during a meeting of the House that this was nonsense and would surely ruin the already precarious finances of the Republic. While Laurens said nothing publicly, although privately in favor, and very little generally during the 3 day testimony of Sec. Hamilton and quickly realized he was presiding over a deadlocked Congress. Laurens hit upon an idea while walking along the Broadway to Hamilton’s home in the summer of 1790. Laurens turned around and proceeded up town to Vice-President Jay’s resident to discuss his idea. Arriving and Jay’s door at the 10pm on 20th and proceeded to lay out his plan to gather Madison, himself, Jay and Hamilton in Jay’s fireside room and begin as Laurens termed it, a series of “fireside chats” to discuss what could be done about reconciling Assumption and Discrimination. Laurens unknown to him and in what would only become obvious to historians years later managed to broker one of the first deals in American Legislative History. Laurens agreement in what became known as the “Fireside Dicker” managed to get Madison and Hamilton to agree to the installation of Hamilton’s Assumption plan and in return Virginia would acquire the national capital. [3] This agreement would serve to do several things, it enhanced the power of the Speaker of House of Representatives, would serve to increase the influence of the Vice Presidency in domestic politics, and finally and perhaps unintentionally lead to the beginning of party politics in the United States. While the first two consequences were obvious right away while the third would not become obvious until the election of 1796.
Madison wrote to his friend Thomas Jefferson informing him of the deal. Jefferson aghast at what had happened and what Jefferson termed as the, “encroachment of Monarchist forces on our Republic bent on the overthrow of our free society. ” Jefferson’s next letter, which arrived in late 1791, informed Washington of his desire to resign. Washington penned an acceptance and assigned Governeur Morris with delivery and to the position of Minister to France. 1790 proceeded as planned while testifying to House on the state of international relations; Adams reported his 1785 experience with the Dey of Algiers and the worsening situation on the Continent and in particular France as reported to him in regular correspondence with Thomas Jefferson. Upon hearing of this as well as Hamilton’s testimony on the economic impact, Knox’s testimony regarding the feasibility of detaching soldiers to deal with the issue. Congress finally agreed to begin laying down the hulls for three new ships, the United States, Constitution and the Liberty. In the spring of 1790 they agreed to give Flag Rank to John Paul Jones now Commodore Jones and instructed him to return home and take command of the American Navy.
[1] William Jackson was a real person and was the secretary of the Constitutional Convention. Madison’s notes outstripped his notes about the Convention, as for this TL many of Jackson’s notes and recordings about Washington’s administration will survive (I am unaware if they do in OTL but for our purposes they will provide a bit of light into Washington’s administration)
[2] Hamilton’s landmark first Report on Public Credit will be virtually unchanged from OTL as will his other reports such as Report on Manufactures and the 2ndnd report and Manufactures as we approach those years. Report on Public Credit. More on the 2
[3] OTL’s Dinner Table Compromise.
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I'd think that any sort of ex-post facto law would be ...frowned on. I assume you want him to be President, later? Why on earth would congress even want to specifically allow Admirals to be eligible for the Presidency, and if there was some movement for that it could have been in the Constitution. The Constitution is very clear on 'natural born or citizen at the time of the adoption of the Constitution'. Presumably it was for a reason. Trying to avoid the clear intent of the Constitution by a specious argument would, I imagine, fly like a lead balloon. In the improbable instance it passed, it would set a TERRIBLE precedent. 'We don't like what the constitution says, so we'll just pass a law to pretend it's provisions don't apply.'
Ouch. Really ouch. You do that, and in 50 years the Constitution will be absolutely meaningless.
Jones sailed as a sailor from New Hampshire although he was first recruited from Virginia. I thought it more of a move to honor America's greatest naval hero and to counter anti-federalist arguments that the govt was essentially screwing veterans by going with Assumption instead of Discrimination. I do see your point, I think I will probably delete the section.