Latest realistic PoD to prevent the creation of Israel?

CaliGuy

Banned
What is the latest realistic PoD to prevent the creation of Israel in 1948?

Any thoughts on this?
 
Need to make the Central Powers win WW1. Then you don't have a devastated Germany looking for revenge, and the Ottoman Empire gets a boost from being on the winning side, so they maintain ownership of the Levant.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Need to make the Central Powers win WW1. Then you don't have a devastated Germany looking for revenge, and the Ottoman Empire gets a boost from being on the winning side, so they maintain ownership of the Levant.
So, any PoD beyond that--such as having Hitler get killed in 1923--cannot achieve this goal of mine?
 
So, any PoD beyond that--such as having Hitler get killed in 1923--cannot achieve this goal of mine?

I initially typed in a POD with Hitler and his cohorts dying at the Beer Hall Putsch, but I backed it out and went with WW1. Even if you kill off the Nazis early, there's ba chance of a similar group replacing them. The draconian reparations imposed on Germany would still destroy their economy and create an opening for a totalitarian regime. Communism would be too associated with Russia to be a viable option, so it's going to be some form of fascism.

With Jews still available as a convenient scapegoat for Germany's problems, killing Hitler and company in 1923 doesn't necessarily avert the Holocaust.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
I initially typed in a POD with Hitler and his cohorts dying at the Beer Hall Putsch, but I backed it out and went with WW1. Even if you kill off the Nazis early, there's ba chance of a similar group replacing them. The draconian reparations imposed on Germany would still destroy their economy and create an opening for a totalitarian regime. Communism would be too associated with Russia to be a viable option, so it's going to be some form of fascism.

With Jews still available as a convenient scapegoat for Germany's problems, killing Hitler and company in 1923 doesn't necessarily avert the Holocaust.
OK; understood.

However, what about if this alt-German right-wing group successfully pressures most German Jews to emigrate--sometimes to Palestine--but avoids killing the remaining ones (along with Jews in many other European countries, of course) like Hitler and the Nazis did?

In such a scenario, would the fresh wave of 1930s Jewish immigrants to Palestine combined with the British destroying the Palestinian Arabs' military potential after the Arab Revolt of 1936-1939 have made the creation of Israel virtually inevitable (even without the Holocaust occurring in this TL)? Or would there have still been a chance to prevent the creation of Israel in such a TL had Britain decided to forcibly disband and destroy all of the Jewish paramilitary organizations in Palestine before it withdrew from there?
 
Stifle the interwar Aliyas for whatever reason, they were the people who transformed Jewish power in the Levant and organised into a state within a state during the 1936 Arab uprising.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Stifle the interwar Aliyas for whatever reason, they were the people who transformed Jewish power in the Levant and organised into a state within a state during the 1936 Arab uprising.
All of the interwar aliyas?
 

Deleted member 97083

Latest possible POD is a WW3 in 1945 or 1946 between the WAllies and Soviets.

Britain will be too busy to create Israel by 1948. Although it would still likely form in 1949, 1950 or whenever the war comes to an end.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Latest possible POD is a WW3 in 1945 or 1946 between the WAllies and Soviets.

Britain will be too busy to create Israel by 1948. Although it would still likely form in 1949, 1950 or whenever the war comes to an end.
I should have said prevent the creation of Israel in the 1940s or later, shouldn't I?
 
OK; understood.

However, what about if this alt-German right-wing group successfully pressures most German Jews to emigrate--sometimes to Palestine--but avoids killing the remaining ones (along with Jews in many other European countries, of course) like Hitler and the Nazis did?

In such a scenario, would the fresh wave of 1930s Jewish immigrants to Palestine combined with the British destroying the Palestinian Arabs' military potential after the Arab Revolt of 1936-1939 have made the creation of Israel virtually inevitable (even without the Holocaust occurring in this TL)? Or would there have still been a chance to prevent the creation of Israel in such a TL had Britain decided to forcibly disband and destroy all of the Jewish paramilitary organizations in Palestine before it withdrew from there?

That might work.

But a CP victory in WW1 is a better guarantee. It prevents the rise of Hitler in Germany and preserves the Ottoman Empire, which makes the Levant a much less attractive destination for Jews. A Hitler-free Europe is a more hospitable environment than a Turkish caliphate.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
That might work.

But a CP victory in WW1 is a better guarantee. It prevents the rise of Hitler in Germany and preserves the Ottoman Empire, which makes the Levant a much less attractive destination for Jews. A Hitler-free Europe is a more hospitable environment than a Turkish caliphate.
How hostile were the Ottomans to Jewish settlement in Palestine (or anywhere else in their empire, for that matter)?
 
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