What is the latest possible point at which the Holy Roman Empire could be centralized under a single government?
What is the latest possible point at which the Holy Roman Empire could be centralized under a single government?
From what I've read, I doubt Charles V could swing that Elfwine. He was constantly fighting with the French, and his brother, later known as HRE Ferdinand I, was his lieutenant for his domains in Germany. If Charles wasn't fighting with the French over Italy (I don't see how, but whatever) he could bring his attention to Germany and try to roll over everything military if his reforms were shot down. That seems kinda ASB though.
On some of the older threads about this, it was mentioned if the Emperor and the Pope weren't in pissing matches, the HRE could start to centralise some as the Pope wouldn't be stick his nose there.
It was only possible under the rule of Ottonians and the Salians. Later it was not possible anymore, because the other princes got too powerfull.What is the latest possible point at which the Holy Roman Empire could be centralized under a single government?
"His Imperial Majesty The Sultan Süleyman I,It was only possible under the rule of Ottonians and the Salians. Later it was not possible anymore, because the other princes got too powerfull.
IMO during the reign of Fredrick II barbarossa. After his death the empire basically crumbled.
Up until its very end it would be possible IMHO.
If Prussia got dismantled in the 7-years war Austria would dominate the region and likely revive the empty hull the HRE was at the time.
And if the HRE had survived until 1848 I'm sure the revolutionaries would have used it, even though it's merely a name by then.
I think that you confuse the Ottonians (Henry I, Otto I the Great, Otto II, Otto III and Henry II) with the Ottomans. That can happen......
That's already a long list of titles, do you really think Süleyman would want to add "the Holy Roman Emperor, King of Hungary, Bohemia, Croatia, Dalmatia, Slavonia, Galicia, Lodomeria, etc" to that list? Poor guy.![]()
Federick I was called Barbarossa. And his major fault was that he gave two duchies into the hand of one man: Henry the Lion.IMO during the reign of Fredrick II barbarossa. After his death the empire basically crumbled.
Replying to threads at five in the morning is *never* a bad idea.I think that you confuse the Ottonians (Henry I, Otto I the Great, Otto II, Otto III and Henry II) with the Ottomans. That can happen...![]()
What few people take into consideration is how many institutions the HRE had in the 18th century, which could be used as a shell for better things to come. It had a kind of defense-organisation (the Reichskreise), an "international court", a kind of "UN general assembly".
Ironically, in a surviving HRE, 19th-century reforms might actually be easier to accomplish with all the fossils around instead of the bunch of middle-powers which emerged in the 1800s. But, basically, Germany would remain a federation. However, I see nothing wrong with that.
You mean because it will be very easy to persuade areas likeSwabia or Thuringia where there are several large but disjointed states thatwould like free trade in an area to link their domains, which would naturallyconglomerate without any one state dominating.
True - but given that pretty much every international war was fought on German soil between member states of the Empire, how effective were these institutions?
I think they were just remnants of former glory. But as you said, someone who draws his power from other sources can use these remnants for centralization of Germany.
That this would end in a federation is IMHO highly likely. The question is anyway how to get a German central state rather than a federal state with a strong center.
Sorry I meant Fredrick II Hohenstaufen.Federick I was called Barbarossa. And his major fault was that he gave two duchies into the hand of one man: Henry the Lion.
EDIT: The feud between the Hohenstaufen and the Welfs was one reason that a centralized HRE was not possible anymore.