Latest possible Colombian Exchange

I quote the sentence


Like i said, the Balacos Island was known by the portuguese. See here.

But knowing that an island with cods existed, and i quote you, "charting America" is too REALLY different things.

Resolved

1) The Mongols didn't fought european knights. East European warfare is quite different from what you had in the western world.

Actually they did see here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mohi

As far as I know the knights templar and the teutonic knights took part in the battle, while yeah it was Hungary this was obviously a coalition going on here

2)Mongols didn't have infinite reserve of men. While they could have plundered Vienna, they couldn't have the possibilities to raid west of the Alps.

Are you sure, the Europeans didnt have means to fight back nether

It's not about walls, it's about men, about ressources, about terrain, about how many men can be opposed to Mongols.

So oaky lets get extravagant here, what if they left and returned in the 1250's with a bigger army Europe wouldnt have answers to a horde of hundreds of thousands
 
So oaky lets get extravagant here, what if they left and returned in the 1250's with a bigger army Europe wouldnt have answers to a horde of hundreds of thousands

And, again, i'll pose you the question :

Where they would find such an army? They breed more? :D

Seriously, they will have hard time to convince that a rather poor land is worth to be raided not to talk about conquest, when Mongols can more easily plunder Asia and Middle-East, gaining more and less hardly.
 
IOTL, by 1492 the Columbian interchange was inevitable. Europeans had strong economic incentives to sail into the Atlantic-trade, fishing, and whaling. They also had strong political incentives-to one up each-other, and to gain sources of wealth which could not be threatened by Muslim powers. Finally, they had the technology to make this much easier. Unlike Lief Ericsson, Columbus could sail across the open ocean for a month, instead of island hopping. Centuries of ignoring the Atlantic when you had the ability and desire to cross it is not plausible.

Some parts of the Americas did seem to have been on the verge of a full-fledged bronze age when the Europeans arrived, so there may have been wider use of metal objects in the Andes and Mesoamerica. In Europe, a delayed introduction of the potato (and the population boom it caused) would delay and possibly butterfly away the industrial revolution. There also would have, overall, been a lot less wealth introduced by the conquest and pillaging of the Americas.

Ok, how early would a POD need to be and how long could the Americas remain separate? Vinland remained forgotten or inconsequential for hundreds of years. And who says there would be the desire? The technology existed for the Chinese to discover the New World and they didn't (or if you believe they did, they didn't follow up on it) so I don't see how the Americas remaining largely unknown for decades or more is impossible.

Some interesting points. I remember reading a alternate history about the impact of the potato, it had a huge impact on history. Maybe Native American civilisations would reach a point beyond the bronze age if they stayed separate?

Which brings us to the thread's topic, the Columbian exchange. If Columbus had not gone west, Europeans might still know about Newfoundland at some point, and stumble upon Brazil by 1500 as IOTL, but what would be the incentive to explore it further and in a detailed way, let alone to settle and exploit it? This is where the butterflies appear. If Europeans start off in Canada or Brazil, decades will pass before they reach the Caribbean, and establish themselves there, which is the pre-requisite to discover Mexico and the bulk of human population, gold and trade routes in the Americas. How much? Who knows. But I wouldn't be surprised if contact between Europe and Mesoamerica was delayed by a full century even.

That would be interesting, the Caribbean and Mesoamerica were the greatest discoveries commercially early on. Without them, or without the Aztec Empire falling so quickly, I doubt there would be so much enthusiam to explore the New World. Exploration might resemble the Portuguese in Africa much more.

And, again, i'll pose you the question :

Where they would find such an army? They breed more? :D

Seriously, they will have hard time to convince that a rather poor land is worth to be raided not to talk about conquest, when Mongols can more easily plunder Asia and Middle-East, gaining more and less hardly.

There was no real incentive for the Mongols to go any further west. Europe was militarily backward and would pose little challenge to the Mongols if they had the will, but it was also comparatively poor. The Mongols may have had an impact on the discovery of the New World. After all Marco Polo went to China under Kublai Khan, and the Mongol conquests brought East Asia far more into European thought than previously. No Mongol invasion, or a more successful Mongol invasion could equally alter the history of the Americas decisively.

I think I'll start another thread in the ASB section to explore the possibilities of the Americas undisturbed/Afro-Eurasia without the Americas. I'll post a link to this thread. It will to non-ASB beyond the premise that neither exist on the same planet.

Here are the links:
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=232218
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=232220
 
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