Latest PoD for Spain Wank

How can you have a POD of Joanna the Mad and Philip the Fair for a Spain wank when we already had a Spain wank. They may have had to spend most of their energy in Europe, but they still largely successful especially in light of doing well in regards to the Aztecs and Incas. Is this "Spain-wank" we are going for sometime after 1820 when Spain lost it's most of it's oversees possessions, which is the only time it would make sense.

The idea here is to "delay" the Spanish wank up until later, as requested per the thread original poster :)
 
By "later", a Spain which has just bumbled along until that point is not going to be in any position to achieve dominance.

In our timeline, yes. That's why I have proposed an alternate history, where Spain in the XVI century joins Portugal and does not go to war in Europe, instead going for colonies in India before England and France... :)
 
And how, pray tell, do you make this work? Its not as simple as decide you'll build factories in Civilization.

18 th century 19 th century Spain is very religious focus rather than scientific. In OTL non American Spanish colonies, medieval 16 th century Spain was predominant rather 18th/19th century enlightenment, Spanish lanuage was not introduce until 1860s.

In order for Spain to achieve the necessary OP requirements, it needs to look unto itself both changes culturally and scientifically.
 
In our timeline, yes. That's why I have proposed an alternate history, where Spain in the XVI century joins Portugal and does not go to war in Europe, instead going for colonies in India before England and France... :)

I doubt you're going to get a Spain staying out of war in Europe - or how joining with Portugal helps. But whether you do or not, I'm not sure it's going to do that well in India.

Namayan: And how do you get it to make such changes?
 
In our timeline, yes. That's why I have proposed an alternate history, where Spain in the XVI century joins Portugal and does not go to war in Europe, instead going for colonies in India before England and France... :)

First of all India in the 16 th century was too strong for Spain to conquer. There is no assurance for Spain to hold or educate India in Spanish language unless Spain develops 19th century British like technology and incentive to conquer India. Spain was already very content with its wealth with Incan gold and south american silver traded with Chinese goods.
 
And how, pray tell, do you make this work? Its not as simple as decide you'll build factories in Civilization.
During the XVIII c. Spain was already taking steps towards the industrialization. This process was aborted by all the political troubles in the XIX c., where conservative victories meant steps back, because the bulk of the conservatism in Spain was a nobility that scorned putting their money to work.

There are ways to allow this to continue: have the conspiracy against Floridablanca fail, give continuity to Joseph I (by having Spain accept him as king and strong use of handwavium so the Napoleonic defeat isn't total, i guess), have Ferdinand VII die early and his heir accept the constitution of 1812...

Spain was in decline during the XVIII century only in comparison with power it had during the 2 previous centuries. The Bourbons were not the plague we like to think often in Spain, through the XVIII they greatly modernized Spain. Even though as a Galician nationalist I despise their centralist policies, i can't deny they really improved on the situation they found. The thoroughness of the screw Spain suffers (mostly self-inflicted) from 1808 to 1939 cannot be overstated.

Spain wasn't back then a nation staunchly resistent to modernization, with every politician tightly gripping a Bible. That image only became very partially true during Ferdinand VII's rule, because after the Independence war, every liberal (which included the industrialists) was seen with distrust and called "afrancesado" (frenchized), and more often than not it costed them their lives. Before then, it was merely a more conservative nation, in slight decline, but having reclaimed part of the lost greatness during Charles III reign. The navy had been modernized and the army refitted: the Spanish army wasn't the joke many could think due to the French invasion (which happened through the use of our PM's corruptibility, not militar might).

Scenario 2:
Archduke Charles wins the War of Spanish Succession and despite the opposition of the other Great Powers, he takes Austria and the HRE too. This begins a new age of Spanish prosperity and France is tamed. Spain a d England are rivals but in the end, Spain gets colonies in Asia and aFrica. England is restricted to NA and the British Isles and beloved sPain rules until the inevitable decline f it's empire.....

Feedback?

As i said before, i don't think the Bourbons were a complete disaster :D
But i have to acknowledge, the scenario of a Hapbsburg victory always intrigued me. An early entente cordiale against a hispano-german axis XD haha. Seriously speaking, this would be a huge change over the political balance OTL, i would like to see how it would play out.
 
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During the XVIII c. Spain was already taking steps towards the industrialization. This process was aborted by all the political troubles in the XIX c., where conservative victories meant steps back, because the bulk of the conservatism in Spain was a nobility that scorned putting their money to work.

There are ways to allow this to continue: have the conspiracy against Floridablanca fail, give continuity to Joseph I (by having Spain accept him as king and strong use of handwavium so the Napoleonic defeat isn't total, i guess), have Ferdinand VII die early and his heir accept the constitution of 1812...

Spain was in decline during the XVIII century only in comparison with power it had during the 2 previous centuries. The Bourbons were not the plague we like to think often in Spain, through the XVIII they greatly modernized Spain. Even though as a Galician nationalist I despise their centralist policies, i can't deny they really improved on the situation they found. The thoroughness of the screw Spain suffers (mostly self-inflicted) from 1808 to 1939 cannot be overstated.

Spain wasn't back then a nation staunchly resistent to modernization, with every politician tightly gripping a Bible. That image only became very partially true during Ferdinand VII's rule, because after the Independence war, every liberal (which included the industrialists) was seen with distrust and called "afrancesado" (frenchized), and more often than not it costed them their lives. Before then, it was merely a more conservative nation, in slight decline, but having reclaimed part of the lost greatness during Charles III reign. The navy had been modernized and the army refitted: the Spanish army wasn't the joke many could think due to the French invasion (which happened through the use of our PM's corruptibility, not militar might).



As i said before, i don't think the Bourbons were a complete disaster :D
But i have to acknowledge, the scenario of a Hapbsburg victory always intrigued me. An early entente cordiale against a hispano-german axis XD haha. Seriously speaking, this would be a huge change over the political balance OTL, i would like to see how it would play out.

Unfortunately, I don't have enough knowledge about the 1700s to successfully do a TL on it but someone else could.
 
I'm not sure if this would result in Spain-wank but if Philip IV was more competent, he could have kept Portugal and his son Balthasar could've survived..
 
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