Latest POD for a Franco British victory against the Nazis

What is the latest possible POD for the French and British being able to defeat Hitler's Germany alone without the Soviet Union or America
 
Someone could be watching the Ardennes and see the Germans coming in time to get troops there to interfere. That POD could be just before the attack.
 

mowque

Banned
Perhaps we could fight the war over Czechoslovakia? It is still Hitler's Germany,t hey are just wildly unready for attack. It'll still be bloody but a much stronger chance for an Allied win compared to OTL Post-Poland.
 
Probably Munich; in conjunction with the Czech's the Entente could beat Germany's still very very small field army (plus the west wall was a lot less built up) without any special difficulty (assuming the French decided they where willing to take casualties, and employ every bit of their armor and air force)
 
A PoD at the very start of the Battle of France is probably enough. All you need to do is stall the German momentum for a few days and let the French get themselves back together, and the Germans will be ground down.
 
A PoD at the very start of the Battle of France is probably enough. All you need to do is stall the German momentum for a few days and let the French get themselves back together, and the Germans will be ground down.

Umm the German army had 2 million men in it, by that time the British and French cannot grind them down by themselves (the sides had more or less numerical parity during sickle cut)
 
Umm the German army had 2 million men in it, by that time the British and French cannot grind them down by themselves (the sides had more or less numerical parity during sickle cut)

Yes they can. The Germans will run out of spare parts for their tanks and certain kinds of ammunition well before the Allies, and the latter have a large amount of American and equipment supplies on the way, as well as the products of their later rearmament becoming available.
 

mowque

Banned
Probably Munich; in conjunction with the Czech's the Entente could beat Germany's still very very small field army (plus the west wall was a lot less built up) without any special difficulty (assuming the French decided they where willing to take casualties, and employ every bit of their armor and air force)

Yeah, this type of war pretty much turns all the Allied disadvantages to advantageous, although we'd have to work hard to give the West the will to do so.

A PoD at the very start of the Battle of France is probably enough. All you need to do is stall the German momentum for a few days and let the French get themselves back together, and the Germans will be ground down.

Umm the German army had 2 million men in it, by that time the British and French cannot grind them down by themselves (the sides had more or less numerical parity during sickle cut)

I think if we got a long war, on the border, the Allies would eventually win through application of Imperial resources. But I find it hard to imagine, with the Germans so determined to knock them out with explosive warfare.
 
But I find it hard to imagine, with the Germans so determined to knock them out with explosive warfare.

They were explosive, but the whole Sichelschnitt concept was also a huge gamble. Had the ball quit rolling on a red number instead of a black one, we would today regard the advance through the Ardennes (everyone knows it is impossible terrain for tanks) as a famous blunder which stuck the best motorized German units in a traffic jam in the forests to be ground down on the River Maas at the angle of the Maginot line.

Had they only attacked on a broad front through Belgium as in 1914, they might have made it as close to parents as their fathers! And also, they should have deployed the tanks the French way, not in a concentration leaving most units bereft of the much needed tanks.

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A later POD would be France fighting on from North Africa. Though not probable, this still leaves it imaginable that the war from then on goes a lot worse for the Axis, but the Allies couldn't win fast enough in such a situation before the US or SU get involved, so the POD is void for the challenge.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
On the afternoon of May 14, the French actually had a golden opportunity to mount a devastating counter attack at Sedan, when two of the three panzer divisions formed up in a line facing westward, with only a single infantry regiment protecting their left (southern) flank. At that moment, the French 3rd Armored and 3rd Mechanized Divisions were forming up directly to the south of them in preparation for a counter attack. Had it gone forward, it would have smashed into the exposed German flank and possibly rolled up the German line. But the attack was cancelled for reasons that are not entirely clear.
 
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