Late 2000's US Civil War TL planning

FBKampfer

Banned
Right up front I know this is straying heavily into ASB territory, but I would like to be as plausible as is possible.

Its my understanding that for the Gulf War, nuclear weapons were on the table if the Iraqis used gas. I see this being a reasonable POD to fracture the country further, without too many necessary butterflies. Primary results would be severe domestic and foreign backlash, and lack of support for the 03 invasion of Iraq. However global market crashes/new counties/wars won and lost are unlikely.

Basically I want to fuck the US's military adventurism, and fuel anti-war sentiment. The 08 crash will be the death blow.

So, who is the most bloodthirsty US General (s) I could stick in charge of both invasions? Bonus points if they have a shitty personality and/or a really punchable face.

Are there any good POD/butterflies to solidify the more conservative parts of the Western/Northwestern states? I'm envisioning Washington, Oregon, California, Nevada, Hawaii, and parts of Utah and Idaho seized for military necessity of the breakaway states.

Likelihood of foreign intervention/recognition? Be it China, Russia, Pakistan, India, etc. Anyone capable of producing combat aircraft.

Good president's and politicians for the infant nation, or worth making an appearance?

And likely reaction of the big 3: UK, Germany, and France?
 
I'll take a stab at this, likely the first 'foreign intervention' would come from Canada or Mexico. Basically troops are sent to the border to deal with possible threats and refugees. An American group tries to attack them they follow the Americans over the border and end up getting into a fire fight within US territory. Overtime troops get more an more comfortable with the idea of holding American territory when it makes sense to do so. As for anyone formerly declaring for one of the sides in the conflict that would be difficult, receiving foreign aid would be a huge admission of defeat for whatever side claims to represent the legitimate government of the United States. Also having a traditional enemy of the United States like China, Russia, or Iran get directly involved would be a big political no-no for the rebels.

Seeing as we aren't going for realism, you might want to use an Empty Quiver Emergency to raise tensions in the United States. An 'Empty Quiver' is the code used when/if a nuke gets lost or stolen. It could easily become the sort of incident that makes the rebels turn against the government, while the government starts doing more to crack down on 'dissidents and spies'.
 
Is it just me or is everybody jumping on the planning threads bandwagon?

This is an interesting TL-if a writer can pull something like this off I will be very impressed.
 

FBKampfer

Banned
It's more a war of secession than of governance over the rest of the United States.

However, I don't think anyone has the slightest delusions that any secession would be a bloodless affair in the United States.

Picture Cascadia, but based less on Bigfoot and hippie culture.
 

FBKampfer

Banned
Is it just me or is everybody jumping on the planning threads bandwagon?

This is an interesting TL-if a writer can pull something like this off I will be very impressed.

I feel they're worthwhile. Many of the people here are nothing less than experts on their personal obsessions.
 

wikipipes

Banned
fucking harold.jpg
 

FBKampfer

Banned
Experts? I haven't been here long but I'm pretty sure not everybody has a specialized PH.D in a certain historical area.

Not at all. A lot of it is shit. But the experts are usually exceptionally well sourced and annotated.

This is just a nerd-powered search engine.
 
Meh. You'd have better luck with a President Cheney timeline where a bloody Iran Invasion coincides with Iraq devolving into full blown sectarian war.

Basically this but have America keep rolling snake eyes. Bring back the Draft for a fruitless slaughterhouse while the economy is collapsing? Wunderbar
 
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