Late 16th Century warfare question

[La Rouge Beret]

I am creating a South East Asian TL and wanted to know, what concepts or technologies could be transferred?

I have certainly read accounts of musketeers and cannon experts finding success at the various courts. Particularly the French companions of the court of Ava.

Could we introduce dragoons / pistol riders to much success or would their mounts succumb to disease? Happy to create further discussion...

 

[carlton_bach]

Southeast Asia is mostly not good horse country, so dragoons or pistoliers would be a problem - probably limited to prestige units. It's not that you can't keep horses there, it's just disproportionately difficult for the benefit they give you.

Some other ideas that come to mind would be ship-mounted guns (I suspect that both mankillers and shipkillers would quickly find their place, much as they did IOTL), light field guns (you could do with bamboo and lacquer what the Swedes did with copper and rawhide, and probably better), and elephant-mounted gunnery. A good shooter seated in a solid wooden fighting platform, supported by two or three loaders and wielding wall muskets could be a real headache for the enemy.

As for the rest, Europe didn't have all that much to teach the area at that time. But I am sure they would find inventive uses for pieces of imported technology (a whellock could be put to all kinds of applications).

 

[eliphas8]

South East Asia's biggest defficency was actually infantry discipline (atleast in India), the biggest bang for their buck would be for better training techniques and better training their troops to deal with artillery.

 

[La Rouge Beret]

Southeast Asia is mostly not good horse country, so dragoons or pistoliers would be a problem - probably limited to prestige units. It's not that you can't keep horses there, it's just disproportionately difficult for the benefit they give you.

Some other ideas that come to mind would be ship-mounted guns (I suspect that both mankillers and shipkillers would quickly find their place, much as they did IOTL), light field guns (you could do with bamboo and lacquer what the Swedes did with copper and rawhide, and probably better), and elephant-mounted gunnery. A good shooter seated in a solid wooden fighting platform, supported by two or three loaders and wielding wall muskets could be a real headache for the enemy.

As for the rest, Europe didn't have all that much to teach the area at that time. But I am sure they would find inventive uses for pieces of imported technology (a whellock could be put to all kinds of applications).

Fascinating do you have any references for the light artillery? I was thinking of having the promised Spanish reinforcements reach Lovek. Alternatively having a British privateer... perhaps Walter Raleigh beached and finding his way to the Khmer court. My thought is how can they independently reach the conclusion of lighter artillery? Thoughts, also interested in your thoughts on elephants... What about the wheel lock?

 

[carlton_bach]

Fascinating do you have any references for the light artillery?

About that leather gun: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leather_cannon

The design wasn't all that great, but when the question becomes making a viable man-portable cannon for deployment in mountainous terrain or jungle, you can probably overlook (and, to a degree, correct) its faults.

I was thinking of having the promised Spanish reinforcements reach Lovek. Alternatively having a British privateer... perhaps Walter Raleigh beached and finding his way to the Khmer court. My thought is how can they independently reach the conclusion of lighter artillery?

That is the problem. Maybe they try to take a leaf out of Pizarro's book and try to deploy falconets or other naval mankillers on land? The main problem I see is that by the 1590s, you'ds still have a relatively large stock of hoop-and-stave or tube-forged guns in service, so a European gunner is liable to come up with those, which would be good enough to do the job, but not necessarily good enough to be really revolutionary.

Thoughts, also interested in your thoughts on elephants...

That would be kind of a locally sourced application. Apparently, the Khmer mounted crossbow-based tension catapults on elephantback. Wall muskets would perform brilliantly in that role, assuming you can train the elephant to stand the flash and noise.

What about the wheel lock?

A wheel lock is basically a way of using mechanical force to trigger an explosion - a nifty idea in a world where your customary way of doing that is a lit match. Two things that immediately come to mind is booby traps and sea mines. If youi can package the wheellock in a watertight container, it will trigger a sumberged charge. Powder has its own oxidant, it works underwater just fine.

 

[La Rouge Beret]

Interesting.

I was interested in applying the turico tactics of the Spanish army to SE Asia.

But the idea of introducing constitutional limits to despotism would be fascinating or at least enlightened despotism ala Catherine or Peter the Great.

As for further weapon development my idea at this stage would be to have remnants of the Ming Army come south.

 

[Falastur]

What's your POD? Tercios are more of an early 17th century development.

As for introducing constitutional limitations on a monarch...even in England, birthplace of constitutional monarchy, the limitations weren't exactly constitutional in this era, and I can't see a SE Asian ruler agreeing to be limited to arbitrary lengths, especially by his subjects in a region where no-one but royalty had any culture of wanting a say in how things are run.

Similarly the enlightened despotism idea - its interesting, but it doesn't even develop in Europe for another 100 years

 

[La Rouge Beret]

In OTL the Kingdom of Lovek requested the Spanish Governor of the Philippines for troops to assist against the Thai army. This time they arrive and stop the sack of Lovek... which stops a slow decline.

Alternatively an English privateer is beached and decides to take his ideas / concepts and finds a receptive King. I am not sure which POD I will use at this stage.

I am also thinking about having the Black King live for several more years, providing the Kingdom a greater amount of stability to raise an army.

As for constitutionalism it is in an embryonic stage... i.e. independent courts, a Buddhist version of the Jesuits, etc.

 

[Falastur]

Tercios are probably out of the question then, but the cannon ideas above are certainly plausible. I couldn't comment on the Jesu-ddhism idea, Buddhism is outside of my area of knowledge, as is the Asian court process.