Lasting third Party in the United States?

Just in Case you didnt know: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/States_Rights_Party

What if, in 1948, The rogue States Rights Democratic Party, led by Strom Thurmond, didn't simply remain a political faction in the Democratic Party, and instead remained a successful third party in the South.

I think even LBJ supported the Thurmond ticket. (Johnson was against the Truman Civil Rights Plank in 1948)

Lets say most Southern Senators and Congressmen desert the Democrats to become Dixiecrats.


How would the GOP and Democrats evolve with a Southern Party?

How would elections from 1952 to 2008(?) play out with a Southern Third Party?

Might the SRDP take the White House eventually, or at least Congress? Where could it expand its voter base into?

Might the Democrats or Republicans die out?
 

Jasen777

Donor
Might the SRDP take the White House eventually, or at least Congress?

No, at best you're looking at a regional party like the Bloc in Canada. Long term they aren't strong enough to be a major party, but are too strong for the 2 major parties to ignore, one of the major parties will absorb them.
 
Why does no-one use the search button :(

The best way for a 3rd party to last is for the bomb plot to kill Hitler just as Sealon is launched.
 
Unless the Dixiecrats find away to broaden their platform, beyond the states' rights of the south, they will become just a regional party. At that point, they could become either a bloc that the other parties have to appease too (which does, in away, happen with OTL two party system); or more likely, slowly eroded away, as their own membership and other southern politicians join the Republicans/Democrats to attain better offices (i.e. President).

Now if they could reach out, and champion the rights of other states, and find appeal, perhaps out west, then I could see a full third party form. I had this idea once for a TL I was doing, except I had the split in the democrats occur during the civil rights acts of the fifties.
 
Well, if the SRDP takes the George Wallace approach: Economically Populist, and socially to the right, then I could see the SRDP gaining ground in the Rust Belt, and the Hispanic filled South-West.

But if the SRDP goes economically to the left, they'll probably have to change their name, as the States Rights Democratic Party isnt too Union Worker friendly.

On the other hand, the SRDP could become the economically conservative and socially conservative party, if they keep their white nationalist rhetoric, they'll remain a deep South Party, but if they tone down the Race Rants, the SRDP could gain in the west, but probably wiping out the GOP in the process, and we're back to a two party world.
 
George Wallace wouldnt fit in with the Newts, Lotts, and Thurmonds of the world. Although he was pretty conservative on social issues like busing and gays, he was a domestic big spender. Alabama newspapers would often call Wallace "downright pink".
 
I think that they would have a greater appeal if state's rights was their focus, and not just simply segregation. Or, they become a centralized vaugely fascist party with more broad appeal.
 
With the US electoral system set up the way it is, it is VERY hard to have a lasting 3rd party that was actually independent of the others. If you had a 'Dixiecrat' (e.g.) party that was just a regional wing of one of the 2 national parties, that could work (cf. CDU/CSU in Germany). With the Dixiecrats, they could even switch which party they worked with.

But a 'third' national party would never get a president elected, for instance, and, given the power the President has in the US system, that rather means that they've lost a lot of political traction from the get-go.

So, no, I don't think it's possible unless the electoral college is replaced, or some other major change happens.
 
If the American Indpendence Party turned into a fiscally liberal but socially conservative party and retained Wallace as leader even after he was shot, it's possible they might pick up black support.

Wallace himself, despite his odious behavior earlier, did better re: Alabama blacks during his last term as governor. Apparently getting shot and being attended by black nurses was a bit of a wake-up call.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Wallace#Final_term_as_governor

Wouldn't that be amusing--the party starts out as explicitly racist and evolves into a non-racist party that courts black support, all under the same leader.
 
Anyone else think it's retarded when parties put "Independent" or "Independence" in their name?
 
Thing is, the US political structure is not really geared to handle a lasting third party; In a winner take all system, as exists in the USA, a three party system either results in the third party getting marginalized to the point of irrelevance, or two of the parties merging to win in the short run.

Now, lasting third parties can and do exist at the level of municipal or statewide elections. The Socialist Worker's Party, for example, originates back from the days of Helen Keller and Eugene Debs. I think if we define a third party as an "allied Movement" to democrats or Republicians, we could easily see a "coalition" of parties in play.

But even here, this basically means that we're knocking out county seats, state legisators, and mayors--perhaps a governor every great while--but probably not at the level of national prominence.
 
I know this is off the main point of this topic, but its turning into a good discussion.

A third party system can come into an effect, all we need is a stronger regional divide.

POD: Socially Conservative Democrat wins in 1960, pursues same economic goals as LBJ, but cracks down on Civil Rights and strongly escalates Vietnam. He beats a primary challenge from some liberal. The leftists who are socially and economically liberal leave the party, the Dem's are unacceptable, as they are "racist warmongers", the GOP is also unacceptable as they are "Fat Cat businessmen". The only other option is: Third Party. This party would probably dominate the Northeast, The GOP would dominate the West and Midwest, and the Dems get the South. If elections keep going to the House enough, the Electoral College may be reformed to just simple plurality rather than majority.

We might see an electoral map like this:
genusmap.php
 
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