Last Chance to Save Greco-Roman Polytheism

Relatively simple question - what is the last point that one could save Greco-Roman polytheism? Not in the sense that the Roman Empire or any of its successors resists Christianization, but in that a particular group or region of some notable size in some corner of Europe manage to maintain their religion, rather than converting to Christianity or Islam or something. Also, how would such a pagan kingdom interact with the Christian and Muslim world? Where would be the most likely area for such a remnant to persist for at least a few centuries?
 
Yeah, Julian had a pretty good plan for reform. Though it wouldn't be polytheism per se, but all gods would be considered one entity, much like in modern Hindu thought.
 
Constant, longer, and/or more outright and brutal warfare between Arianism/Unitarianism/Homoeism and Trinitarianism, approx. 360 AD. If this lasts for some centuries with councils constantly declaring each other heretics or infidels and crusading regularly, Roman (not Greek, or am I wrong?) Polytheism could become appealing again as under it, the Empire was united and Christianity will be seen as a divisive thing!
 
So at no point post-400 could some enclave of polytheist a in some corner of the Greco-Roman world resisted conversion in large enough numbers to be notable?
 
What about Britannia? When were they converted?

Not sure, but I want to believe it was by the time that the Anglo-Saxons started showing up in full force. Now, the Anglo-Saxons were pagans upon initially arriving on the island, but that's Germanic paganism, which is outside the scope of what I'm asking.
 

Skallagrim

Banned
A major problem is that a Christian world isn't going to tolerate a pagan state existing in its midst. Germanic and Norse pagans held out for some time in the north because they were pretty much out of the way. The more out of the way they were, the longer they lasted. See: Iceland. But the Greco-Roman world doesn't really have isolated places like that. (Most out-of-the-way was Britain. Well, the Greco-Roman faith didn't really stick there, after the Romans left. And then Germanic peoples invaded and brought their paganism.) So you have to go big: either paganism manages to remain a major force, with enough power to prevent its destruction... or it gets killed off.

I'm with @Mental_Wizard and @fjihr on this: Julian was basically the last real chance, and if you want to keep the old ways without Julian's own philosophical additions and alterations... you need to go ever earlier. Like maybe have Diocletian's persecution of the Christians get carried on and on and on... until there are no more Christians.
 
I personally am of the opinion that Julian is too late. By his time, there was no meaningful populism to the type of roman religion he promoted (not that I'm overly sure he had a consistent vision) and much of the theology was Platonist in orgin, resulting in quite an elitist faith which I think Christianity would have thrived against.

In short, I think Julian represents an opportunity for Christianity to take a less roman identity in the long run and not its replacement.

Personally, I can't leap to any one POD as a "latest point", but for Greco-roman polytheism specifically to survive, I've always felt that a stoic who could ingraine stoic philosophy or ritualise it enough in a populist sense could have a good chance. Religions don't tend to have clear cut PoDs, mainly because they take centuries to form.
 
Enclaves of polytheism are unlikely. However based on my reading, there is a possibility that Christianity would not be as closely related to the Roman state and there would be a religious pluralism, with Christians and pagans coexisting. From what I understand, a large part of Roman religion was political; not only the emperors were seen as divine and deified, but also the means of government were ritualized. When Christianity became dominant and emperors became Christian, it in a large way replaced the previous role of Roman religion in power, with the emperors becoming Christian, the empire did too, even persecuting pagans and settling theological disputes. The Church much like the previous Imperial Cult was not only an important spiritual institution, but also an arm of the Roman Empire.

However, even if Christianity does not become an organized state religion (either by theological disputes keeping it apart or remaining on its more popular ascetic roots) and the Roman Empire remains pluralist I don't think Greco-Roman paganism would be dominant. First, (this is an arguable point for some, but I stand by it) Christianity was a hopeful religion compared to it: it promised life eternal, the triumph of love and a caring God. It welcomed the poor and the lower classes; something that Greco-Roman paganism did not offer, or it did in a way that was not as appealing. Second: Christianity was accessible. Anyone, of any social class or backgroud could become a Christian. It was not limited by ethnic groups or nationalities. Its theology on its most basic level was accesible, and it was open to many interpretations. And Christian worship was not limited to a priest class or a secret elite. This made it a very appealing religion, even without the backing of the Imperial state. Christianity did not became dominant because of the Roman Empire; it became dominant first, and the Empire adapted to it.

Secret cults and gnostic sects, in my opinion, could not compete against Christianity. They might remain and be influential, but in terms of followers they would form a tiny percentage. The main competitors in a pluralist Roman Empire scenario would be other universalist cults (like maybe an evolution of Mithra or Isis), ethnic religions, Zoroastrianism (though maybe it would be considered the Persian religion and thus persecuted due to the hostility between the two empires... I'm not sure) and maybe Buddhism or other foreign religions. Greco-Roman religion might be an important religion on government, philosophy and of course large populations in Greece and Rome, but if the trends that were in place during the origin of Christianity were still in place, it would be eventually become less important.
 
Christianity was a hopeful religion compared to it: it promised life eternal, the triumph of love and a caring God. It welcomed the poor and the lower classes; something that Greco-Roman paganism did not offer, or it did in a way that was not as appealing. Second: Christianity was accessible. Anyone, of any social class or backgroud could become a Christian. It was not limited by ethnic groups or nationalities. Its theology on its most basic level was accesible, and it was open to many interpretations. And Christian worship was not limited to a priest class or a secret elite. This made it a very appealing religion, even without the backing of the Imperial state.

Successful reform of Greco-Roman polytheism could quell both of these points. That, of course, is why I often point to Julian the Apostate as a possible successful reformer of polytheism. For instance, he planned to impose a tax on churches. Churches be unable to conduct acts of charity, and charity was one of the chief reasons behind Christianity's conversion of the poor. He also attempted to create a belief in an Aristotle-rooted "Unmovable Mover" (or whatever you'd wanna call it) which all the gods were aspects of (a la Hinduism), and create holy scripture in a way as stratified as Christianity, without all the fluidity of the religion. Such a thing, of course, would slow syncretism, but it would not be very hard for Roman citizens to claim that their local god is an aspect of capital-g God.

Suffice to say, if such reforms were conducted successfully, you'd get a successful pagan religion that could rest assured in its dominance. Of course, Christianity would be important, but not the most religion of Rome.
 
So at no point post-400 could some enclave of polytheist a in some corner of the Greco-Roman world resisted conversion in large enough numbers to be notable?

If any place did, it would be the Bosporan Kingdom, since they were basically at the fringe of the Greco-Roman world. Tweak a few things in the internal politics and culture there and they could be a good holdout of paganism before they inevitably have to convert to receive help from the Eastern Romans against the steppe hordes. Or if they can somehow come out on top against the steppe hordes (fortify the isthmus of Perekop plus any other crossing of the Sivash?), convert because of trade advantages. Since their cultural outlook is south across the Black Sea to an increasingly Christian world, I wouldn't give them much extra time. But it's possible TTL that the last Greco-Roman pagans would be Bosporan Greeks than Maniots.
 
Two answers. The first is the imperium of Theodosius the Great. He was the Emperor who threw the authority of the government exclusively behind Christianity, to the point of persecuting followers of other religions.

Julian was not the last chance. It was preventing bigotry from becoming state policy. Otherwise, Christianity and Greco-Roman paganism could have entered into the same relationship as Buddhism did with the traditional religions in China.

The second answer is the 1790s. Have the leaders of the French Revolution decide to revive paganism and put the weight of the French government behind it, and make it stick. They nearly went this route with the Cult of Reason. And there was a big classical revival about the same time. Even of the revolution doesn't stick, leftist political movements afterwards associate themselves culturally with classical paganism instead of atheism.
 
The second answer is the 1790s. Have the leaders of the French Revolution decide to revive paganism and put the weight of the French government behind it, and make it stick. They nearly went this route with the Cult of Reason. And there was a big classical revival about the same time. Even of the revolution doesn't stick, leftist political movements afterwards associate themselves culturally with classical paganism instead of atheism.

That's not saving Greco-Roman paganism so much as it is remaking it in the image those people want it to be. It has very little to do with the original religion. It's as "real" as nowadays Greco-Roman neopagans or more contemporaneously, the 19th century Germanic neopagans.

Plus I don't see it would have many more actually dedicated followers than OTL atheism itself, or 19th century non-traditional religions like Theosophy, Spiritualism, etc.
 
If any place did, it would be the Bosporan Kingdom, since they were basically at the fringe of the Greco-Roman world. Tweak a few things in the internal politics and culture there and they could be a good holdout of paganism before they inevitably have to convert to receive help from the Eastern Romans against the steppe hordes. Or if they can somehow come out on top against the steppe hordes (fortify the isthmus of Perekop plus any other crossing of the Sivash?), convert because of trade advantages. Since their cultural outlook is south across the Black Sea to an increasingly Christian world, I wouldn't give them much extra time. But it's possible TTL that the last Greco-Roman pagans would be Bosporan Greeks than Maniots.

Assuming that a stable, pagan Bosporan Kingdom survives to at least the 800s or so, could they potentially cultivate trade relations with Eastern European pagans (pre-Christian Poland, the Kievan Rus', maybe the very fringes of the Nordic world) in lieu of accepting Christianity to curry favor with the Byzantines?
 
Assuming that a stable, pagan Bosporan Kingdom survives to at least the 800s or so, could they potentially cultivate trade relations with Eastern European pagans (pre-Christian Poland, the Kievan Rus', maybe the very fringes of the Nordic world) in lieu of accepting Christianity to curry favor with the Byzantines?

Could work. But they'd probably get Christianised eventually. Would be interesting if holdouts lasted in the mountains for a few centuries--not entirely implausible, given Crimea's historic diversity of ethnic groups.

And thinking of that, assuming history goes a similar course and we have Italian trading cities making colonies in Crimea and the Renaissance and all that, these last pagans might become the subject of much interest. Maybe wild tales of Ancient Greece living on and fantastic temples. Or just derision at a bunch of superstitious peasants. Probably the former at first, and then the latter, especially when they find out these 14th/15th century Greek pagans differ too much from Ancient Greece. It most certainly will, since their faith would have elements of the Scythian, Turkic, and Christian religions.
 
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