Largest Possible Canada

I once drew a border estimating the largest possible Canada (with a more-or-less War of 1812-era POD), operating under the assumption that everything went absolutely right for Britain/Canada in border disputes (in a major departure from OTL). This also assumes an abortive Federal Republic of New England which rejoins British North America (nominally or otherwise), along with the Iroquois and then Tecumseh coming onside. Alaska was either purchased or seized from Russia (probably as a result of an alt-Crimea). You can probably assume that at least a few islands in the British Caribbean joined in as well. (Greenland, I'm not so sure about.)

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I'm a terrible cartographer, so I used the watersheds map to help me with borders. The absence of the US-Mexico border is a deliberate omission; let them argue that one out over themselves. Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, Canada can't be much larger than this, otherwise it really isn't Canada so much as a Greater British North America.

Just a rough sketch I made once, and quite possibly wildly inaccurate, but I thought I might as well share it :)
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Interesting map, Brainbin, but wouldn't you say the resulting nation would be less Canada and more Greater New England?
Probably at first, but the population of Canada at Confederation in 1867 (which is to say, parts of Ontario, Quebec, and all of New Brunswick and Nova Scotia) was already roughly equal to that of New England by that time IOTL - assuming identical migration patterns, which are highly unlikely. The balance of power will definitely shift with time.
 
The challenge here is that if Canada gets too big, it's no longer what we would think of Canada. The Pacific Northwest and Minnesota and Wisconsin are all right. The Dakotas would fit right in. But New England and Chicago are stretches, and New York out of the question.
Also, hello, everyone! :D:cool:

HEY.
 
I'm assuming "Canada" means the confederation formed after the American Civil War, thus the POD cant be before then since it butterflies away what we think of as Canada?

Actually, originally "Canada" was just what is now Ontario and Québec, then known as Upper Canada and Lower Canada respectively (Upper Canada being the upper St. Lawrence River valley and Lower Canada being the delta and Gulf of St. Lawrence area, as well as Montréal and points downstream.
 
Interesting map, Brainbin, but wouldn't you say the resulting nation would be less Canada and more Greater New England?

Why not both? :p If you get greater Lusophone immigration to New England (not that hard, mind you), then New England and/or Canada could just as well be Greater Cape Verde as well as Greater Portugal.
 
But New England and Chicago are stretches (1), and New York out of the question. (2)

(1) I agree about Chicago. New England, though? It is basically similar to the Maritimes in many ways, and with the exception of language New England is also similar to Quebec. It would fit right in.

(2) Upstate or Downstate? ;)
 

katchen

Banned
You might also include California.The British came within a whisker of acquiring California in 1844. Mexico had agreed to sell California to the UK rather than see the US get it and Great Britain actually sent a warship to San Francisco to take it over, but John C. Fremont and his people were there first.
And if you're talking about the British taking Alaska during the Crimean War, they might well take Kamchatka too, since the British had a ship besieging Petropavlovsk Kamchatskiy during the Crimean War. Where they'd actually draw the line with Russia in the peace treaty, I don't know. The Indigirka River? The Lena, Aldan and Maja Rivers?
 
(1) I agree about Chicago. New England, though? It is basically similar to the Maritimes in many ways, and with the exception of language New England is also similar to Quebec. It would fit right in.
Sure, but that sounds more like New England Plus than Canada to me. Vermont, Maine and maybe even New Hampshire you could squeeze in their, but Boston is one of the Capitals of the American Revolution, if not the capital.

(2) Upstate or Downstate? ;)
Heh. No Downstate, of course. How Upstate would define itself without Downstate is interesting, but I'd group it with the New England states that could go in Canada without a fuss.
 
I have to wonder if Chicago region could be put in more easily than New England seeing as how it was barely populated until fairly recently you could send whoever you wanted to settle it. Not that it would be anywhere near as big as OTL. I mean it's of little importance to Canada, it would probably end up another Windsor or something.
 
In August 1918 as the Canadian forces landed in Vladivostok, no one could have imagined the unlikely concatenation of events that would trigger the emergence of the greatest land empire the planet has ever known.

And yet today, the maple leaf flies from Newfoundland to St. Petersburg, and from Point Barrow to Samarkand, united by parliamentary democracy and hockey.

;)
 
vultan said:
Interesting map, Brainbin, but wouldn't you say the resulting nation would be less Canada and more Greater New England?
Not unless it's based on not having Loyalists as "founding fathers". That's shaped the Canadian character more than most of us would admit (even if we knew, & I bet most don't).
 
I agree - we miss you so much. Certainly I do.

D'awwww. :p

Not unless it's based on not having Loyalists as "founding fathers". That's shaped the Canadian character more than most of us would admit (even if we knew, & I bet most don't).

Well, this forum more than the general populace does, I think. ;)

But yes, I would say that a post-1783 POD is an absolute must for me to consider it "Canada", and probably post-1811 as well.
 
Zyzzyva said:
Well, this forum more than the general populace does, I think. ;)
I take that as given.;)

Something else: if the Brits do try to take *Alaska, doesn't that lead to war with the Russians? Since they were already bumping heads with the Brits in Afghanistan, & since the Brits allied with Japan OTL in part to check the Russians in the Pacific.
 
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