Largest plausible CP?

What's the largest size the Central Powers bloc could plausibly have attained during the war? Assuming we're starting with Germany and Austria-Hungary, and we still have the Ottoman Empire and Bulgaria join in as IOTL, who else could the CPs have plausibly convinced to get on side during the course of the war?

And what if we push it further back - who could plausibly be convinced to join this bloc during the following periods, and under what conditions?
1904-1914
1898-1904
1894-1898
1884-1894
1879-1884
1871-1878

Which combination of factors leads us to the largest plausible CP?
 
Okay, lemme try and organize this.

OTL: Germany, Austria-Hungary, Ottoman Empire, Bulgaria.

1904-1914: Better handling of Bosnian Crisis/Italo-Turkish war could bring in Italy on the CP's side. King Carol living longer and/or better CP performance in the war potentially brings Romania. Constantine winning out over Venizelos nets them Greece. Essen going insane and not being stopped potentially brings in Sweden. President Champ Clark in 1912 plus some bad diplomacy on the part of the British might swing the United States, although that would take a lot of luck.

1898-1904: Anglo-Japanese alliance was signed in this period. If not and they stay free agents, they might be persuaded to attack the Russians. I'm assuming generally that the Entente must have France, Russia, Serbia, and probably the UK to remain recognizable. And honestly, I'm having trouble figuring out what POD's before this would keep a recognizable WWI, so I think I'll call it quits for the time being, see if I have more ideas later. There might be a way to bring Persia in, but I don't know what POD would be appropriate for that.
 
1904-1914: Better handling of Bosnian Crisis/Italo-Turkish war could bring in Italy on the CP's side. King Carol living longer and/or better CP performance in the war potentially brings Romania. Constantine winning out over Venizelos nets them Greece. Essen going insane and not being stopped potentially brings in Sweden. President Champ Clark in 1912 plus some bad diplomacy on the part of the British might swing the United States, although that would take a lot of luck.

Can you tell me more about Constantine's attitudes towards the Ottomans? It seems like Greece would have to see either Serbia or Britain (or both) as a greater threat for them to side with the Ottomans.

Sweden's a country I hadn't considered. Can you tell me more about Essen and the situation there?

1898-1904: Anglo-Japanese alliance was signed in this period. If not and they stay free agents, they might be persuaded to attack the Russians. I'm assuming generally that the Entente must have France, Russia, Serbia, and probably the UK to remain recognizable.

I like this, this definitely seems like a plausible way to get Japan, seeing as how they clashed with Russia IOTL and definitely saw Russia as a potential threat. Not being friends with Britain means it would be natural for Japanese interests to run counter to the Allies/Entente.

And honestly, I'm having trouble figuring out what POD's before this would keep a recognizable WWI, so I think I'll call it quits for the time being, see if I have more ideas later. There might be a way to bring Persia in, but I don't know what POD would be appropriate for that.

Yeah, before the late 1880s, it'd be hard to get the configuration we know of from WWI. Given Bismark not being dismissed, or other factors, you may not even have Britain and Russia reconciling. Regarding Persia, if they feel threatened enough by British expansion in the Gulf or from the Raj, they could attempt to side with the Ottomans - or alternatively, with Russia, which may or may not be hostile to Britain depending on other factors.
 
^During early weeks of WW1 admiral von Essen planned attacking against Swedish navy because he was worried about close relationships of Sweden and Germany. But leadership of Russian navy ordered him return before he could commit attack. If Essen would have attacked this could bring Sweden to war.
 
Can you tell me more about Constantine's attitudes towards the Ottomans? It seems like Greece would have to see either Serbia or Britain (or both) as a greater threat for them to side with the Ottomans.

Well, he was no friend of the Turks - he fought them twice, in the Greco-Turkish War in 1897 and in the First Balkan War, so at most he'd be in an alliance of convenience with them. Still, that did happen in 1913 in the Second Balkan War. The real problem is that IOTL, although his opponents called him pro-German, what he really wanted was neutrality, and he was pretty sure that opposing Britain would go badly. If anything, he'd be more likely to side with Germany if Britain remained neutral and he thought he could take Vardar Macedonia from the Serbs. For a POD, let's say Home Rule gets done a couple months early, and the Ulster Volunteer Force takes up arms, large formations of the British army refuse to suppress them, they're abetted by Conservative politicians like Carson and Bonar Law (all nearly OTL, for the record), and that just becomes an all-encompassing mess that keeps them out of the July Crisis. The Germans take Paris in late 1914, and come 1915, they move troops into the Balkans to finish off the Serbs for good. Then, Constantine might see an opportunity to make some gains, and dismisses Venizelos if necessary. Especially likely if he thinks that Bulgaria might beat him to it if he doesn't act, and honoring their defense treaty with Serbia would be foolish if it meant facing the German army as well.
 
Okay, lemme try and organize this.

OTL: Germany, Austria-Hungary, Ottoman Empire, Bulgaria.

1904-1914: Better handling of Bosnian Crisis/Italo-Turkish war could bring in Italy on the CP's side. King Carol living longer and/or better CP performance in the war potentially brings Romania. Constantine winning out over Venizelos nets them Greece. Essen going insane and not being stopped potentially brings in Sweden. President Champ Clark in 1912 plus some bad diplomacy on the part of the British might swing the United States, although that would take a lot of luck.

1898-1904: Anglo-Japanese alliance was signed in this period. If not and they stay free agents, they might be persuaded to attack the Russians. I'm assuming generally that the Entente must have France, Russia, Serbia, and probably the UK to remain recognizable. And honestly, I'm having trouble figuring out what POD's before this would keep a recognizable WWI, so I think I'll call it quits for the time being, see if I have more ideas later. There might be a way to bring Persia in, but I don't know what POD would be appropriate for that.

Having the US enter the war on the CP side isn't very plausible, but having them take a less friendly stance toward the Entente powers is. The British seem to have been pretty careful but I could see them making a gaffe like sending a fake Zimmerman telegram or staging some kind of event to try to lure the US into the war which would be revealed to national outrage. The worst thing they could do for themselves would be to deliberately and demonstrably try to put American citizens in a situation in which they would be attacked by a U-boat or, if the Brits came down with a serious case of reckless stupidity, attacking with one of their own subs posing as a German one.
 
Honestly, getting the UK into an alt-Central Powers is tricky, but not impossible. Fashoda goes hot (or even just worse), combined with some belligerency on Russia's part towards the Ottoman's (or Afghanistan) and having Wilhelm II checked/removed/whatever could probably do it.
 

trajen777

Banned
IN the 1895 - 1900 time frame Germany and GB entered into serious negotiations about an alliance, more driven by GB then Germany. The key issue that kept it apart is GB did not want to get locked into an alliance with AH and dragged into a conflict in the Balkans. So if you have the CP and then have a separate alliance (ie if one power attacks GB or Germany the other will stay neutral if 2 powers attack GB or Germany then they are bound to also come in). If GB and Germany are allies then Italy would stay n the CP. Their is a good section in the book Dreadnaught on this
 
IN the 1895 - 1900 time frame Germany and GB entered into serious negotiations about an alliance, more driven by GB then Germany. The key issue that kept it apart is GB did not want to get locked into an alliance with AH and dragged into a conflict in the Balkans. So if you have the CP and then have a separate alliance (ie if one power attacks GB or Germany the other will stay neutral if 2 powers attack GB or Germany then they are bound to also come in). If GB and Germany are allies then Italy would stay n the CP. Their is a good section in the book Dreadnaught on this
I thought the issue was the British wanted a General "friendship and support" thing ie. as close you can get to an alliance without an actual alliance and the Germans wanted an actual fully committed alliance.
 
Biggest/best would be the Family Bloc: Russia, Britain and Germany against the Ottomans, Austrians, and French, fighting over Elsass, the general Balkans, the Middle East, and African claims.
 
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