Largest Amphibious Landing in Alt-History

TheCrow__

Banned
well in my time line I been working on I believe I've created the largest amphibious landing I just want to know if anyone has me beat so what y'all got
 

TheCrow__

Banned
my landing is during WWII in America the entire CS Marine Corps' landing on Long Island they are accompanied by several aircraft carriers, destroyers, subs, and so forth plus in the time line at the same time there are amphibious landings by the CS Army across the Ohio and the Missippi Rivers
 
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Hard to say, Crow.

A Realistic portrayal of planetary invasion would be up there, I imagine--hundreds of millions of men for the invasion force, spearheaded without nothing less than an planetary nuclear attack or other opening strike.

Still, most likely Amphibious Assault of epic scale would have been Downfall, against Japan, at least in history.

Strictly oceanic or interplanetary in scale?
 

TheCrow__

Banned
strictly oceanic "amphibious" not um what ever you call an assault from space but yeah I love the idea of Downfall it's one of my favs wish it would happen and I was alive I probally would have died but atleast I'd be a big part a history
 

Blackwood

Banned
strictly oceanic "amphibious" not um what ever you call an assault from space but yeah I love the idea of Downfall it's one of my favs wish it would happen and I was alive I probally would have died but atleast I'd be a big part a history

You wish it had happened? Think of the incredible number of lives that would have been lost - more than perhaps any battle in the entire war..
 

TheCrow__

Banned
yeah I know but I said I wanted to be there and die I suppose that is a little disturbing but I have an affection for war I was born at the start of a war and besides it did'nt happen so my oppinion is worthless
 

TheCrow__

Banned
oh and Downfall was predicted to have possibly more casualtie than the Pacific War and possibly all other fronts
 

Blackwood

Banned
yeah I know but I said I wanted to be there and die I suppose that is a little disturbing but I have an affection for war I was born at the start of a war and besides it did'nt happen so my oppinion is worthless

Well, no, you're opinion isn't worthless. Operation Downfall was a legitimate possibility that very well might have happened. I mean, I suppose war can become very romanticized at times, and the War in the Pacific is no exception, but you must admit that it would have been horrific had it actually gone through.
 
A failed D-Day and a 1946 invasion of Europe might have been larger in scope than Downfall, even, but other than saying it "could have" happened no real plans for it.
 

CalBear

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my landing is during WWII in America the entire CS Marine Corps' landing on Long Island they are accompanied by several aircraft carriers, destroyers, subs, and so forth plus in the time line at the same time there are amphibious landings by the CS Army across the Ohio and the Missippi Rivers


This isn't even as large as Normady. Dwarfed by the Normandy-Saipan combination that covered two massive landing force on opposite SIDES of the Planet landing within a few days of each other. Normandy alone involved 5,000 vessels, while Saipan put two full Marine divisions onto the beaches. I believe the total Pacific Fleet at Saipan had 20+ carriers and at least 10 battleships for the gun line and carrier escort.
 
In a online forum game I play in me and another player did a two Corp invasion of Western Crete from Malta; 4 divisions worth 90,000 men. Covering them was the Austrian and Iberian battlelines. Used WW1 tech. I know this is smaller than D-Day but thouht I would put it in for humor value.

Michael
 

TheCrow__

Banned
interesting well does anyone else have any alternate amphibious invasions they've came up with it really does'nt have to be the largest really I just like amphibious warfare and I wanna know what else people have came up with and to CalBear how many troops were there used during Normandy cause I don't think they had as many as what would be the entire CSMC plus I'll probally throw in some Army companies and I'm not good with the Navy stuff so once I figure it up I'll put in as many CS Navy vessels as I can for the operation cause it's gonna be needed for an invasion of Long Island, and the troops needed for this operation would be way more than Normandy, building to building fighting in NY that's gonna be alot of troops
 

CalBear

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interesting well does anyone else have any alternate amphibious invasions they've came up with it really does'nt have to be the largest really I just like amphibious warfare and I wanna know what else people have came up with and to CalBear how many troops were there used during Normandy cause I don't think they had as many as what would be the entire CSMC plus I'll probally throw in some Army companies and I'm not good with the Navy stuff so once I figure it up I'll put in as many CS Navy vessels as I can for the operation cause it's gonna be needed for an invasion of Long Island, and the troops needed for this operation would be way more than Normandy, building to building fighting in NY that's gonna be alot of troops

In the 1st week of Overlord the Allies put better than 350,000 troops (roughly 36 DIVISIONS) across the beaches. In under a month that rose to a shade over 1.2 million or roughly 100 divisions and 225,000 vehicles.

At it's peak, the USMC had just under 485,000 men, including airwings, making it larger than most of the world's armies. logistically, the USN tail need to support it was nearly unimaginable.

While I can understand the desire to make something really big, it is fairly critical (at least if it going to be posted in this forum, where there are more than a few folks who know Amphibious operations) that you get a good understanding of the requirements of a major landing.

If, as one might surmise from the way the scenario is presented, this is the invasion of the United States by a victorious CSA in the 20th Century the logistical effort required is overwhelming. To just put 100,000 foot soldiers, no supplies, no vehicles, artillery, armor or anything else will require 2,500 LCVP, assuming that none are lost to beach defenses, a better figure is 3,500 - 4,500. You will need close to 1,000 LCT to put the armor, jeeps, artillery, ammo, rations, and the rest of the minimal supplies to support the assault troops for a day. Figure an minimum of 200 escort & gunfire support vessels ranging from corvettes up to battleships, times that by two -three if the USN is still a going concern. Unlike the Normandy assault, it would be a six hour trip back to reload supplies, meaning you will have a need for at least three times the cargo bottoms that the allies managed.

I would suggest that it is logistically impossible for any even barely realistic CSA to muster that sort of force. The population could not support a military force that large. It takes anywhere from 1 to 1.5 men afloat for every man you put onto the beach at any time, meaning you would need 1,500,000 sailors to put one million troops on the beach (a figure equal to that put ashore by the allies in the first month of Overlord). That would require a population of at least 20 million, assuming you go to a total war footing and have every peron you can working on production or in uniform, and that the entire military is concentrated in that one place. If you have more forces, you will need more people, and in the scenario it would seem you will need a LOT more troops. That is going to be tough for a CSA with a starting population of just 5.5 million in 1865 (slaves wouldn't be of much use in factory settings & the chances of a free black population in ANY CSA is bizarre in the extreme). Even allowing for a full doubling of the literate population needed for industrial work every 20 years (something of a question prior to modern medicine) that would only leave 88 million white population best case. That size population won't support a 300 division size military (100 divisions or 1, million to invade, 40 divisions to defend what must be a heavily fortified border, and 1.5 million (= to 150 divisions) navy and a minimal 100,000 member Air Force) not if it also has to provide the tools of war.

The allies cheated at Normandy because they had to cross a strait, one that could effectively plug at each end, not an actual body of water where every ship required escort on every trip and the forces that would, in this scenario have to be offshore on AKs were sitting in camps in England. The massively reduced the number of ships and sailors needed to invade Western Europe. Without that accident of geography the Allies would have needed many times the number of ships, with a corresponding increase in the number of ship's crews.
 
In a online forum game I play in me and another player did a two Corp invasion of Western Crete from Malta; 4 divisions worth 90,000 men. Covering them was the Austrian and Iberian battlelines. Used WW1 tech. I know this is smaller than D-Day but thouht I would put it in for humor value.

Michael

In this one game Germany liberated Gibralter and told the italians to help in operation sealion. The italians managed to mess that up. It would have failed anyways 2 divisions looking for an undefended spot on the coast.

Also as Japan capturing shanghai and nanking than landing 1/10 of the IJA there, that actually worked oddly.
 
Maybe a 1960-80's Nazi invasion of America or vice versa.

Sealion doesn't happen, but GB is locked down and Germany takes on Russia alone, and sometime decades later the invasion comes. Then more decades later, they try America, or America tries Germany.
 

TheCrow__

Banned
In the 1st week of Overlord the Allies put better than 350,000 troops (roughly 36 DIVISIONS) across the beaches. In under a month that rose to a shade over 1.2 million or roughly 100 divisions and 225,000 vehicles.

At it's peak, the USMC had just under 485,000 men, including airwings, making it larger than most of the world's armies. logistically, the USN tail need to support it was nearly unimaginable.

While I can understand the desire to make something really big, it is fairly critical (at least if it going to be posted in this forum, where there are more than a few folks who know Amphibious operations) that you get a good understanding of the requirements of a major landing.

If, as one might surmise from the way the scenario is presented, this is the invasion of the United States by a victorious CSA in the 20th Century the logistical effort required is overwhelming. To just put 100,000 foot soldiers, no supplies, no vehicles, artillery, armor or anything else will require 2,500 LCVP, assuming that none are lost to beach defenses, a better figure is 3,500 - 4,500. You will need close to 1,000 LCT to put the armor, jeeps, artillery, ammo, rations, and the rest of the minimal supplies to support the assault troops for a day. Figure an minimum of 200 escort & gunfire support vessels ranging from corvettes up to battleships, times that by two -three if the USN is still a going concern. Unlike the Normandy assault, it would be a six hour trip back to reload supplies, meaning you will have a need for at least three times the cargo bottoms that the allies managed.

I would suggest that it is logistically impossible for any even barely realistic CSA to muster that sort of force. The population could not support a military force that large. It takes anywhere from 1 to 1.5 men afloat for every man you put onto the beach at any time, meaning you would need 1,500,000 sailors to put one million troops on the beach (a figure equal to that put ashore by the allies in the first month of Overlord). That would require a population of at least 20 million, assuming you go to a total war footing and have every peron you can working on production or in uniform, and that the entire military is concentrated in that one place. If you have more forces, you will need more people, and in the scenario it would seem you will need a LOT more troops. That is going to be tough for a CSA with a starting population of just 5.5 million in 1865 (slaves wouldn't be of much use in factory settings & the chances of a free black population in ANY CSA is bizarre in the extreme). Even allowing for a full doubling of the literate population needed for industrial work every 20 years (something of a question prior to modern medicine) that would only leave 88 million white population best case. That size population won't support a 300 division size military (100 divisions or 1, million to invade, 40 divisions to defend what must be a heavily fortified border, and 1.5 million (= to 150 divisions) navy and a minimal 100,000 member Air Force) not if it also has to provide the tools of war.

The allies cheated at Normandy because they had to cross a strait, one that could effectively plug at each end, not an actual body of water where every ship required escort on every trip and the forces that would, in this scenario have to be offshore on AKs were sitting in camps in England. The massively reduced the number of ships and sailors needed to invade Western Europe. Without that accident of geography the Allies would have needed many times the number of ships, with a corresponding increase in the number of ship's crews.

eh maybe I should do more research lol well what do you think would be a better landing point I want some where on the East Coast not D.C. it's already under the control of the CSA and oh you were talking about slaves in this tl slaves are free segregation is not really around as they moved most of the slaves to captured D.C. which is extremely ghettoized and the CSMC is integrated along with other parts of the CS military but most negroes are conscripted into segregated units
 

TheCrow__

Banned
I had already planed a smaller invasion into Cincinatti but maybe it could be the large scale building to building fighting invasion I wanted it would be alot easier to do so to speak
 
The allies cheated at Normandy because they had to cross a strait, one that could effectively plug at each end, not an actual body of water where every ship required escort on every trip and the forces that would, in this scenario have to be offshore on AKs were sitting in camps in England. The massively reduced the number of ships and sailors needed to invade Western Europe. Without that accident of geography the Allies would have needed many times the number of ships, with a corresponding increase in the number of ship's crews.
They also have the advantage of being able to use land based air power instead of having to rely on CVs. Assuming that you have the same numbers of troops on air defence and repairs, you have at the very least freed up sailors for other duties.
 
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