What would it take for the Asian communities in the European colonies in Africa to be significantly larger, while the white community remains the same or is even smaller? I remember reading about on British official in Kenya who wanted the region to be "The America of the Hindu" Is this achievable? How much larger could the South and East Asian communities in Africa get? How would a larger Asian cultural footprint affect Africans?
Larger Scale Asian migration to Africa
- Thread starter VictorVanBakker
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If you can get rid of the Hindu taboo against sea travel, it'd be easier.
Or maybe you can just acquire the Dutch East Indies and import people from there.
Or maybe you can just acquire the Dutch East Indies and import people from there.
I wonder if this is also why until fairly recently, there were so few Indian immigrants to the USA.
Benevolent
Banned
Get more Vietnamese to migrate to Senegal, push more Indian labour to anglophone Africa and provide work for Chinese folks similar to what's occurring now and you'll be fine.
Reality is they'll mostly marry and have families with native women, so I guess be prepared for that.
Reality is they'll mostly marry and have families with native women, so I guess be prepared for that.
I'm not so sure about that.
Asian communities in Africa tend to be fairly tightly knit, and don't often marry across the colour line. Larger Asian migration would obviously cause a number of butterflies - social, economic, and political - but I'm not sure it will lead to higher levels of racial mixing.
Chinese goes expansionist in Medival age (Zeng He discovered the African coast OTL. Emperor does not destroy the junk fleet for ideological reasons. Maybe you can get Chinese Mandarin administered provinces on the East African coast.
Deleted member 67076
Would a larger Muslim population in India solve that?
That would bankrupt the Ming and cause them to fall faster to various nomads up north, unfortunately.
Perhaps; on one hand, the South Asian Muslims also have their form of the caste system, and on the other, the Hajj is easier with sea travel, so *shrugs*
It would surely be possible to increase the numbers sent to British East Africa before or during WW1 or give the current migrants a better reason to stay (apparently many of the railway labourers left). The low numbers of white settlers would also help, as they'd have limited power compared to later on.
Even increasing their numbers by several thousand would mean a much larger population say in the 1960s, during decolonisation.
It would seem unlikely that large numbers would be able to be sent by the 1930s due to the depression (more to the cost of sending them) but maybe WW2 would change that, if a need for large numbers of Indian labourers could be created. The settlers of Kenya especially will be more of an issue too.
Even increasing their numbers by several thousand would mean a much larger population say in the 1960s, during decolonisation.
It would seem unlikely that large numbers would be able to be sent by the 1930s due to the depression (more to the cost of sending them) but maybe WW2 would change that, if a need for large numbers of Indian labourers could be created. The settlers of Kenya especially will be more of an issue too.
I think the "black water" prohibitions often get a little too much credit. As long as there's a credible reason for people to do so, they will cheerfully find loopholes for such things - especially if they don't plan on returning to their native India.
They did in history, they'll do it here too if there's compelling economic and social motivators to travel to Africa.
They did in history, they'll do it here too if there's compelling economic and social motivators to travel to Africa.
Benevolent
Banned
If you bring them with whole families maybe, it depends on if you want it to be. By dramatically increasing the male worker population you will get the side effect of mixed race kids.
It doesn't take much, just look at the Japanese of DRC mixing was so common that their doctors and nurses were murdering dozens of new born babies.
Benevolent
Banned
I found out about them after reading about the history of mixed race people in DRC as a teen, in the 70's up to a thousand Japanese miners flooded into Katanga a region rich in mineral wealth.
As they began to work and settle many shacked up with local women in short or long term relationships. The women would go to their clinic that had a Japanese doctor and nurse who would deliver the children all of whom promptly died after being taken away from the mother.
There are about 50 alive today born in the bush, it was recommended to the mothers by their parents who were worried their grandchildren would also be killed.
Apparently my Congolese half-metis family member is aware of them but the Japanese and DRC government doesn't give a shit.
There were relatively few because Asian immigration to the US was extremely restricted until the 1960s. Also, the UK was completely to open to Indians until the 1970s.
And there was plenty of Indian immigration to other places. There were large Indian trading communities around the Indian Ocean, and plenty of laborers were brought by the British into Southern and Eastern Africa. The taboos only applied to Brahmins, so other castes would likely not have been affected. (And plenty of upwardly mobile Brahmins went abroad during British times and before, in spite of the custom.)
Yeah, in South Africa the Indian community is split between Hindus and Muslims. The Hindus are normally the descendants of indentured labourers who came to South Africa on contracts, and then decided to stay. The Muslims are normally the descendants of traders (often Gujaratis) who came to provide services and so on for the growing Indian community.
This is honestly a very bad idea of how the treasure fleet worked.
There were Chinese traders in East Africa since at least Tang times. Al-Idrisi in 1065 mentions how one East African island became a major trade hub, for example:
In one Swahili site alone, 1656 shards of porcelain were discovered. Many Swahili mosques or mansions have niches specifically designed to contain Chinese porcelain, and Song coins have been found throughout the Swahili Coast. This isn't because of the Zheng He treasure fleet, this is a natural result of centuries of private Chinese traders following the African coast down to the Atlantic (a Yuan map in 1312 accurately portrays the northward curve of South Africa). There's a reason the Swahili sultans first thought the Portuguese were Chinese; there was precedent for non-sewn ships with pale-skinned crews coming from the south.
So Zheng He did not discover Africa. In fact, every place Zheng He visited, from Malindi to Malacca and Jiddah to Java, had already been visited by the Chinese in a non-governmental manner, often for centuries. The treasure fleet only served to enforce the Chinese state's dominance in the Indian. And it was scrapped mainly because it achieved little compared to its price moreso than some Confucian reactionarism which is so often blamed.
Not that hard actually. After the 1670s the whole 'Kala Pani' thing had died out and the sub-cont Next was starting to take a revived interest in the outside world.
By the 1820s, many Gujarati traders were making their way to South Africa Kenya and Zimbabwe, setting up shop in the British African colonies. Usually they used to be merchants whose second and third sons would act as clerks and administrators for the owners of the diamond mines.
All you really need is for more incentive towards migration. Perhaps the British could use the bored heirs of Princely States by offering them lives in the African colonies as clerks in the railways and some may even become settlers with land!
This in turn would get them to bring their own labour.
As for examples of mass South Asian immigration; Suriname, Trinidad and Tobago and Guyana all have very large minorities of south Asian descent, coming from families of indentured labourers bought over for work. In fact I think it goes as high as 40-45% of their population in Suriname.
By the 1820s, many Gujarati traders were making their way to South Africa Kenya and Zimbabwe, setting up shop in the British African colonies. Usually they used to be merchants whose second and third sons would act as clerks and administrators for the owners of the diamond mines.
All you really need is for more incentive towards migration. Perhaps the British could use the bored heirs of Princely States by offering them lives in the African colonies as clerks in the railways and some may even become settlers with land!
This in turn would get them to bring their own labour.
As for examples of mass South Asian immigration; Suriname, Trinidad and Tobago and Guyana all have very large minorities of south Asian descent, coming from families of indentured labourers bought over for work. In fact I think it goes as high as 40-45% of their population in Suriname.
Are you sure about that?
The first Indians came to South Africa in 1860, and they were mainly Hindu labourers - the Gujarati traders came after that. Britain also only colonised Rhodesia in the 1890s, with Kenyan colonisation starting around the same time.
He might be.
The story of Indian migration in the early 19th century Empire is pretty unknown by most of us. I have in fact just purchased a new book about NZ's early colonial history within the imperial trade routes that deals a little (so far as I can tell) with the movement of Indians to and from NZ before 1840 (on British ships usually).