Larger Holland Question

If things had worked out differently Belgium and Luxembourg might have remained part of the Netherlands but I was wondering if there was any point when a dynastic marriage might have led to closer ties between Holland and Hanover, giving a shot at a major power where several smaller ones were.
 
If things had worked out differently Belgium and Luxembourg might have remained part of the Netherlands but I was wondering if there was any point when a dynastic marriage might have led to closer ties between Holland and Hanover, giving a shot at a major power where several smaller ones were.
After 1815? Very hard. In 1848 the Netherlands got their liberal constitution making any union just a personal union. Then there is the problem that Hanover is part of the German confederation and the Netherlands isn't. There is German and Dutch nationalism. All this make a union of the netherlands and Hanover unlikely.

Before 1815? Possible. You just need a couple of different marriages between the Orange-Nassaus, some unfortunate deaths and childless marriages and suddenly a Hannoverian is stadholder, not unlike the British personal union. This is not without its own problems. The Netherlands wouldn't like foreign involvement (or actually any involvement from the stadholder), so it is possible that they decide to get rid of the stadholder and start a stadholderless age (that happened twice OTL). But the Orange-Nassaus were the counts of (most) of Nassau, so it is likely that they don't care that much, at least as long as the stadholder won't get the republic involved in any unneccesary Hanoverian wars or other troubles.
Of course that means that belgium isn't part of the Netherlands or that Hanover isn't as strong as after 1815. Still you could get an influential stadholder who manages to incorporate much of Belgium (although probably hardly more than Flanders at best) and maybe some parts of Germany close to Hanover and the Netherlands (maybe anexing most of Munster of a Munster-Dutch war). In that case you still have just a personal union, but maybe just like OTL the Netherlands becomes a kingdom in some way and the two join.
 

Susano

Banned
Think is the bothersome Salic Law. There was mindboggingly many Nassau lines in the 18th century, and as happened IOTL the Netherlands would simply appoint another Nassau line for the Stadholder office then go through the female line. The Welfs wont inhereit through the female line, either, though, as there are enough lines of them, too.
 
Think is the bothersome Salic Law. There was mindboggingly many Nassau lines in the 18th century, and as happened IOTL the Netherlands would simply appoint another Nassau line for the Stadholder office then go through the female line. The Welfs wont inhereit through the female line, either, though, as there are enough lines of them, too.

That isn't quite correct. There was no salic law for the stadholders. They were sort of appointed. I really doubt the Dutch would go looking for some Nassau somewhere in germany, they would rather have someone with some connections to the Netherlands, like when the Orange-Nassau went to the line of the Frisian stadholders. If a stadholder would die without any male children or a brother with any male children and for some reason the Frisian branch isn't available 9they already fused or something like that), I think they would rather go after the son of his sister/daughter, than some German Nassau who completely doesn't care about the Netherlands. Although i must admit that just getting rid of the stadholder is more likely. It really depends on the person, timing etc.
 
Ok, I was thinking about it and was wondering how plausible this scenario is:

POD around 1650. Stadholder Willem II doesn't die and manages after a small civil war to break the power of the states of Holland (the province of Holland, not the country of the Netherlands) and so increases the influence of the stadholder. (OTL Willem II did try to break the power of Holland, but he died before he was able to). He fathers two children, a son Willem (OTL William III of England) and a daughter (let's call her Anna). Willem marries into the English royal family like OTL and Anna marries the ruler of Hanover (wasn't it called some kind of Brunswick at this point).

Because the original poster wanted Belgium as part of the Netherlands so I suggest this. Before Willem II died OTL he tried to make a deal with France to divide the southern Netherlands. Now he continues this plans and makes a deal with France and they go to war with Spain. End result: the Netherlands adds a large part of Flanders, Brabant and Gueldres to its territory, while France gains the rest. I suggest the line Ostend, Ghent Mechelen (I think the Netherlands gains all Dutch speaking parts and France the rest is a bit cliche). The Netherlands also gain some Spanish colonies.

Sadly Willem II dies during this war. The merchant-regents in Holland decide to get rid of the stadholder (as Willem is still too young). This ruins the Dutch French relation (which would have been ruined anyway as France wanted the rest of the southern Netherlands for itself and part of the Netherlands too). Anyway a bit later France decides to attack the Netherlands, together with England (or maybe not England, it doesn't realy matter) and Munster/Cologne. As OTL this goes badly for the Netherlands and a large part is overrun by France. The Dutch beat the English at sea, the desperate population blames the regents and Willem becomes the new stadholder. He manages to beat the French by gaining some powerful allies, which include Hanover (or Brunswick-whatever). After the war the Dutch want the French as far away as possible so the border shifts south, so the Netherlands now include Dunkirk and Brussels (still not all of Belgium I must admit) and it is heavily fortified. To prevent an attack from the east (and as a reward) Hanover annexes a large part of Munster.

Willem III still dies childless. His nephew (the son of his daughter and now (or soon to be) ruler of Hanover is apointed stadholder and inherits the various personal titles, like prince of Orange and count of Lingen (which is conveniently close to recently annexed Munster). We now have the ruler of Hanover stadholder of the more important parts of the Netherlands and ruler of important territories between Hanover and the Netherlands. The biggest problem is how do we let the states of Holland/Utrecht/Zeeland/Overijssel and Gueldres accept him as stadholder. Maybe only Gueldres accept him as stadholder, making the other parts stadholder free until the French start acting up (which is probably very quickly).

Ok, how likely is this?
 

Susano

Banned
That isn't quite correct. There was no salic law for the stadholders. They were sort of appointed. I really doubt the Dutch would go looking for some Nassau somewhere in germany, they would rather have someone with some connections to the Netherlands, like when the Orange-Nassau went to the line of the Frisian stadholders. If a stadholder would die without any male children or a brother with any male children and for some reason the Frisian branch isn't available 9they already fused or something like that), I think they would rather go after the son of his sister/daughter, than some German Nassau who completely doesn't care about the Netherlands. Although i must admit that just getting rid of the stadholder is more likely. It really depends on the person, timing etc.

As said, it happened IOTL. When William III had no children, eventually Nassau-Diez inherited (and became the younger house Nassau-Orange)...
 
As said, it happened IOTL. When William III had no children, eventually Nassau-Diez inherited (and became the younger house Nassau-Orange)...

I believe that was because he was stadholder of the northern provinces, not because he was a member of the Nassau-Dietz line.
 
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