Larger East Germany

What if East Germany had control over Bavaria, Schleswig-Holstein, and Pomerania? Could East Germany become strong enough to challenge the Soviets? What would happen in Western Europe? And could there still be a German reunification?
 
What if East Germany had control over Bavaria, Schleswig-Holstein, and Pomerania? Could East Germany become strong enough to challenge the Soviets? What would happen in Western Europe? And could there still be a German reunification?

No, even if an East Germany of this geographic size were created it would never be permitted to gain such political & military power.
 
Depending on different moods when drawing up a post-war map, maybe Pommerania and Silesia remain with East Germany, and they just loose East Prussia to Russia and Poland.

But that is really the only change I can see, unless the Allies make a major blunder in the West letting the Soviets push for the North Sea coast.
 
I think East Germany would be basically the same as it was OTL, only with bit more land, population, etc. As stated before, East Germany would never be allowed to become strong enough to challenge the Soviets. That would be contrary to the interests of the Soviets.
 

NomadicSky

Banned
I think an independent and neutral but still free market Bavaria would be interesting. Europe with another Austria.
 
If you want minimum points of departure...

Your best best would be to have Truman back up Churchill's position that Germany's eastern border should be on the Eastern Niesse, rather than the Western. That would add a fair slice of Silesia to East Germany. But that would hardly be enough to really increase the power of the GDR appreciably.

Otherwise, you need a much bigger point of departure, and earlier - say, a D-Day invasion delayed significantly, a Battle of the Bulge that achieved greater strategic success - anything to slow down the drive of Allied armies into Germany.
 
Back then those areas were still comparatively rural, so not much industrial power to gain for East Germany from that. Further, even this enlarged GDR has less inhabitants than Poland (even with keeping Pomerania and Silesia it would hardly match numbers), which wasn't a challenge for soviet power either.

But the size difference between West and East Germany would now be less (OTL the FRG had about four times as many inhabitants as the GDR, but in this scenario it shifts to roughly 3:2)
While that wouldn't make a reunification impossible it wouldn't be as one-sided as it happened OTL
 
How badly damaged was Munich? or rather how quickly could it be rebuilt?

If the East Germans got their hands on both Munich and Berlin it could cause a crisis in Germany. Their nations capital and 2nd largest industrial center occupied by the Soviet Union doesn't spell good things...
 
Soviet forces "liberated" Bornhol, the little Danish island in the Baltic (actually closer to Sweden than to Denmark).

They only left in 1946 (!)

The claim was thaqt Denmark had aided Germany and was therefore not "liberated" area, but "conquered" area. A big difference.

Whether East Germany would have been alowed to get much bigger is a good question. Doubtful, as the whole idea was to keep Germany from ever rising again (and thereby posing a threat to Soviet).

It could have been feasible for Soviet to "liberate" Bavaria, Denmark and the entire Baltic Germany. They could (probably) have conquered both Finland and Sweden as well (for whatever reason).

So, is the question really: Could Soviet have increased its territory and influence in Western Europe? By active occupation?

The answer is probably Yes, they could, but maybe the cost would have been too high. After all, Soviet was not in a good shape after WWII.

UK had stated thaty could not see a conflict with Soviet in Europe. Neither could US forces be called up again.

Ivan
 
Remember, that there wasn't "East" and "West" Germany, there was the "US", "British", "French" and "Soviet" occupation zones. The first three of which united to form West Germany. To get a bigger East Germany, you need a totally different split into occupation zones (with a much bigger share for Stalin), and I don't see the West letting that happen. Unless, of course, the Soviets meet the WAllies much further west....
 
What if East Germany had control over Bavaria, Schleswig-Holstein, and Pomerania? Could East Germany become strong enough to challenge the Soviets? What would happen in Western Europe? And could there still be a German reunification?

No Schleswig-Holstein, for geostrategical reasons! Notice that the Soviet empire carved out in Eastern Europe and in Western Asia carefully avoids USSR easy access into the warm seas. Even Yugoslavia and Albania were kept as "disident" countries - socialist, but not in the Warsaw treaty / Economical Coopeation Council ... I think that any pressure towards the oceans and mediterranen would result in continuation of the WW2. Soviets would be pushed back.
 
What if East Germany had control over Bavaria, Schleswig-Holstein, and Pomerania? Could East Germany become strong enough to challenge the Soviets? What would happen in Western Europe? And could there still be a German reunification?

Well like the scenarios involving an exclusive Western occupation of Germany for this (East Germany with Bavaria) you need a POD in 1943 as the occupation zones were more or less set by then despite disagreement between the British/Soviets (on one hand) and the Americans (on the other hand) over the the borders of the zones (the American position never stood a chance because the planned invasion of France would mean that the American armies would be in the wrong position to occupy the zone that FDR favoured).

Unless you can craft a scenario where Bavaria decides not to join the FRG and becomes independent and then experiences a communist revolution and joins the GDR (oh and you need the Americans to be totally gone before that point).
 

Adler

Banned
There might be two possible points:

1. The WAllies decide to break the agreement and don't retreat. That meant they would be occupying this:

Demarkationslinien_1945.jpg


That would be about 1/3rd of the GDR. Stalin now keeps all of Berlin. Also he knows, that this state is too small. So he decides to give Pommerania and Silesia to the GDR.

2. OR: The Western Powers try to make a deal and exchange that area for Berlin. With the same consequences then.

Adler
 
It's unlikely, having defeated Germany, that the USSR is going to up and allow its German puppet state to challenge it. It's worth noting that in Soviet tests of the West via proposals of a united Germany that all the proposals were for a *demilitarized* Germany.
 
Had the borders been drawn on the demarcation lines was it possible for Soviet Poland and Czechoslovakia to get all of eastern Germany.
 
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