Lantern Empires Discussion

Discussion for 'Lantern Empires', formerly known as the 'Anti-Habsburg TL'.

I'll be posting the first 25+ years of timeline in the Scenarios and Timelines forum shortly. Watch this space. :rolleyes:
 
Trying to hide the Anti-Hapsburg TL under a different name? Hah, I'm not buying it! It's still evil! Now, that that's over with, I can comment on the TL...

Very interesting so far... I suppose the Hapsburgs simply end up dying out slowly with the death of Rudolph (which is a shame). And I doubt that union between England and Scotland will be peaceful for long...
 
WhatIsAUserName said:
What was with the name change?

Well, as the timeline goes on, I think the lack of the Habsburgs will becomes far less significant, especially when compared to the profound changes caused by the construction of the lantern tower - or optical telegraphy - networks...
 

Diamond

Banned
Still an excellent timeline, and I'm still loving it. Even though I haven't commented on it much. Or at all, actually. :eek:
 
Scotland

Right. The plan for Scotland is as follows:

Margaret of Scotland (the Maid of Norway) rules under the regency council of the so-called 'Guardians of Scotland' until her marriage to Prince Edward (future Edward II of England) in 1298. She gives birth to a daughter (Elizabeth) in 1303, and two sons (Edward in 1307, Richard in 1311).

When Edward I of England dies in 1309, Margaret's husband takes the English throne as King Edward II. His misjudged attempts to bring the two nations' systems of taxation into alignment tap into a vein of Scottish discontent, triggering a revolt that quickly turns into a Civil War, as all kinds of grievances and tensions bubble up to the surface.

Loyalties are divided, to say the least. Led by the Red Comyn, who decries Margaret as little more than a puppet of her husband, a significant minority of Scots regard any English meddling in Scottish affairs as intolerable. They seek to depose Margaret and install their leader as her successor.

However, despite being wary of Edward, the majority respect Margaret’s birthright. A small faction support the joint rule of Edward and Margaret, whilst another faction launches a simultaneous rebellion against 'English imperialism' in lieu their position as a separate kingdom as stipulated in the original treaties of Birgham. Still, most of the influential figures in the Scottish nobility take the pragmatic route, declaring neutrality, and waiting to see which way the tides of war turn, rather than risk throwing in their lot with a losing army.

Margaret sends messengers to Norway to request military aid. The first messenger drowns in a storm, whilst the second is delayed.

Meanwhile, unwilling to deploy English troops in fear of alienating their supporters, and amid the Red Comyn’s occupation of much of northern and eastern Scotland, Margaret and Edward approach the Bruce dynasty. Initially, their pleas for aid fall on deaf ears, but the deal is made when Margaret offers to endow Robert with the Scottish Lord Chancellorship. Robert agrees to commit his forces on the condition that the original treaties of Brigham are to remain when determining the nature of the rule of Scotland once the conflict is over.

Eventually, Norway sends a response. Haakon V (Margaret's uncle?) has committed several units of Norwegian infantry and a number of warships to the conflict and, with Norwegian aid, the superior forces of Edward II and Robert the Bruce drive back the armies of the Red Comyn. But then, things begin to drag on. The various armies fight back and forth along a relatively stable frontier for several months, with neither side gaining any real advantage.

Tentative negotiations lead to cease fire and, in 1314, a treaty is signed. The Northernmost quarter/fifth of Scotland, having been occupied by the forces of the Red Comyn, are given over to an independent Kingdom of Albany ruled by the Comyn dynasty, whilst the rest is retained by Margaret and the Plantagenets. Norway solidifies its control of Orkney and the Shetlands. Robert the Bruce becomes Scottish Lord Chancellor and, in 1317, Elizabeth (Margaret's daughter) marries Thomas Bruce; Robert's son and heir.

Unexpectedly, in 1318 Margaret dies from a fever. The throne of Scotland passes to her eleven-year-old heir, Edward (also heir to the throne of England after his father) who is placed under the regency of the Lord Chancellor and self-styled Guardian of Scotland, Robert the Bruce.

Eventually, after the death of Edward (who will presumably be monarch of both Scotland and England, if only for a little while) I think that either Thomas Bruce or his son (by Elizabeth) will issue a claim to the Scottish throne claiming matrilineal decent from Margaret, whilst England remains firmly in the hands of the Plantagenets. What happens then? Presumably an Anglo-Scottish conflict of some sort fought against the background of the Black Death.

Albany remains under the rule of the Comyn family, who intermarry with a cadet branch of the Balliols. The kingdom of Albany ends up as a Gaelic nation that considers itself the legitimate successor of pre-Plantagenet Scotland. With Norway retaining Orkney and the Sheltands, trade between Norway and Albany seems likely.

Now, the big question: What does this do to Ireland? Answers on a postcard... :p
 
Also, as a reward for reading - behold the scary and incomplete MAP OF DOOM:

(NB. Some parts of the map are still c. 1300, whilst others are c. 1400. Some bits have been ATLed, others not. This is by no means finished or accurate.)

The-Light-Towers-Map.gif
 
Like it, but...

1. You mention the Black Death- but you said earlier that the effects would be massively limited in this TL.

2. How much of Denmark is under the Republic of Copenhagen?

3. Wasn't Liege going to be bigger and take over Hainaut and Gelders? (or is it still at 1300 there?)

4. Are you still going to go with that idea of a future Crusade/thinly disguised colonial takeover in North Africa? (A Norwegian colony in Morocco would be amazing!)
 
SteveW said:
Like it, but...

This is a total rijigging of the Anti-Hasburg timeline. I'm reusing lots of ideas from there, but this is *seperate* and *self-contained*. History will definitely take a different route in this version. On the stuff in the timelines and scenarios forum in canon. Stuff in this thread is brainstorming. Stuff in the Anti-Habsburg thread is seperate, although I'll be plundering it for material.

The map is mostly for 1300, but with some areas slightly further ahead. It's far from complete or canonical.
 
Oooh, and here's a shiny map for 1325 (it's taken me weeks, but will act as a base and point of reference for the rest of the timeline):

(Timeline for 1300-1325 to follow in 'Timelines and Scenarios' forum, probably tomorrow or Monday)

Map-with-Names-for-1325.gif
 
Bright day
Hmm, no Matus Csak? OTL he was pro-Czech. EDIT: Ah surviving Hungary... That changes everything, powerfull nobility lasted till WWII in OTL...

Say again, how do german nobles take to emperor who can kick them around?
 
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Gladi said:
Say again, how do german nobles take to emperor who can kick them around?

Same way as the dealt with the Habsburgs in OTL. :D

And upon Otakar II's death in 1296 in TTL, he is replaced as emperor by *Louis IV, Duke of Upper Bavaria (not the one we know, but his half-brother who died young in OTL). So, unlike the Habsburgs, the Premyslid's aren't quite powerful enough to maintain their monopology on the Imperial throne.

The whole Union of Olmütz thing happens afterwards, in 1320.

EDIT: and the Csaks did exist, but their dreams of independence / liberation were crushed by a surviving Ladislaus IV of Hungary.
 
Justin Pickard said:
No fun?! I'm aiming to have a network of vast optical telegraphy towers criss-crossing Europe by the 16th century! What more do you people need? :p

World-spanning Czech Empire , which is recognizably Czech :D.
 
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