Languages challenge: Pennsylvania Dutch

Make Pennsylvania Dutch the majority language in one or more states in 2000 with a POD after 1750.
How about the USA manages to add Quebec (and other French speaking areas of Canada) to the union, during the war of independence? that would mean that there are already two widely spread languages in the US. That could make it easier for other groups to retain their language, like the Germans speaking pensylvanian Dutch 9or a language related to the dialect.
 

Glen

Moderator
As my family is heavily Pennsylvania Dutch and was in Pennsylvania since about 1715 or so, I think I can make some comments on this one.

The problem is not English language oppression (there was no such pressure in most of Pennsylvania as the pure English speakers were for many many years outnumbered), but rather the shear usefulness of English when dealing with the rest of the United States that was the first stage to its decline. But what really put the nail in the coffin was World War I, when it became unpopular to speak German (and then WWII for added emphasis). Between the utility of English and the anti-German sentiment of World War II, you had Pennsylvania Dutch decline to a curiosity rather than the main language of the region.

A couple things would help. First, make a bigger German exodus to America in the late 18th/early 19th century (it was getting there to begin with) and have them really fill up the state so that you can travel for a week or more without running into an English speaker. That would help to insulate the language from the pervasive utility of the English around it. Maybe having another big language minority or two border the Pennsylvania Dutch so there were other competitors with English as well would help. I seem to recall some vague idea of making English and German official languages at the birth of the republic, but that could be a false memory, but such would help. Lastly, avoid any wars with German speaking nations.

Remember that Pennsylvania Dutch is Low German, so you need to have people who speak that form of German moving to the area.
 

Glen

Moderator
As my family is heavily Pennsylvania Dutch and was in Pennsylvania since about 1715 or so, I think I can make some comments on this one.

The problem is not English language oppression (there was no such pressure in most of Pennsylvania as the pure English speakers were for many many years outnumbered), but rather the shear usefulness of English when dealing with the rest of the United States that was the first stage to its decline. But what really put the nail in the coffin was World War I, when it became unpopular to speak German (and then WWII for added emphasis). Between the utility of English and the anti-German sentiment of World War II, you had Pennsylvania Dutch decline to a curiosity rather than the main language of the region.

A couple things would help. First, make a bigger German exodus to America in the late 18th/early 19th century (it was getting there to begin with) and have them really fill up the state so that you can travel for a week or more without running into an English speaker. That would help to insulate the language from the pervasive utility of the English around it. Maybe having another big language minority or two border the Pennsylvania Dutch so there were other competitors with English as well would help. I seem to recall some vague idea of making English and German official languages at the birth of the republic, but that could be a false memory, but such would help. Lastly, avoid any wars with German speaking nations.

Remember that Pennsylvania Dutch is Low German, so you need to have people who speak that form of German moving to the area.

Interesting, they are listing it in one place as Low German, and another as High German. I was taught long ago that it was Low German, but then again, when I look at where my ancestors came from (mostly Southern German areas) the High German seems more likely....
 
Interesting, they are listing it in one place as Low German, and another as High German. I was taught long ago that it was Low German, but then again, when I look at where my ancestors came from (mostly Southern German areas) the High German seems more likely....

If wikipedia can be believed, there are two separate languages in use in the region, Pennsylvania German (Pennsilfaanisch Deitsch) and "Mennonite Low German" (Plautdietsch). Pennsylvania German is a High German language of the West Central German subdivision, and Plautdietsch is a Low German language of the East Low German subdivision, featuring notable Dutch influences.

That said, Pennsilfaanisch Deitsch appears to have a lot of Low German consonants, and Berlinerisch 'g' (pronounced like English 'y'/modern standard German 'j').

In fact, Pennsilfaanisch Deitsch looks damn similar to Luxemburgish to me, without the extra French-derived vocabulary.
 

Glen

Moderator
Interesting. I suspect people originally confused the Mennonite version with what was commonly spoken when looking it up....the High German makes more sense.
 
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