Language Change and Conservatism in Colonies

Spanish - Latin American and the extinct Philippine varieties retain vocabularies of XVI and XVII centuries that are now obsolete in Spain. Vos is still common in some parts in Latin America while in Spain, it has been non-existent.
 
Tap, nappy, sweets, frying pan, glasses, and, um, noon.

My late grandmother (born 1912) used to say eyeglasses though.

Other than nappy all are common in the US too.
-The faucet is usually what it's called, although water from it is called "tap water"
-Always a diaper here. Most people would have absolutely no clue what a "nappy" is.
-"Sweets" here can mean candy, but would also include cookies and cake, and really anything sweet for a dessert or a treat. What we call cookies are what would be called biscuits in the UK. Our "biscuits" are something closer to a fluffy scone I guess?
-Frying pan and skillet are interchangeable. I hear frying pan more often.
-Nobody would ever say "eyeglasses". They are called "glasses". I think they made it on the original list because of the assumption that Brits call them "spectacles". Obviously if you're from the UK and you say they are called "glasses" than that is the primary term in both places. Spectacles is definitely used more in the UK though. It took me a while to figure out what it meant when I heard someone say "specky" in a TV show.
-I think Noon was on there because of Noon vs. Midday. Noon is more common here but people would understand both. I suppose I'd think Midday was more vauge whereas Noon means 12:00.


In general, I don't think vocabulary follows the "colonies use more archaic language" rule as much as grammar and accents do. I think everyone tends to hear others terms as being more old-fashioned. Canadians I know who use "pop" for soft drinks think "soda" sounds old-timey, and I feel the same way about 'pop'.

Accents on the other hand, seems to change more in the home countries. I'd venture to say this is because many historical changes in speech have been started by the upper classes. Up until the last century recently Europe was home to a far more established upper class than the colonies and former colonies were. Also, the colonies tended to be more rural in nature, in part because they were usually much larger.

I do think it's a bit unfair to compare Quebecois and Afrikaans- which were isolated from Metropolitan French and Dutch for hundreds of years- to US English or Mexican Spanish where there continued to plenty contact with the UK and Spain, even after independence. Some English practices caught on only in certain areas of the US, such as non-rhoticy in Boston and NYC, because the upper classes there were immitating what first became popular in London. People in Montreal or Cape Town never did this because they didn't have much contact with Paris or Amsterdam, so even the upper classes maintained a more archaic manner of speaking. Interestingly enough, it's finally happening in Montreal where the French is beginning to sound much more Metropolitan. Less so in rural Quebec.
 
Interestingly enough, it's finally happening in Montreal where the French is beginning to sound much more Metropolitan. Less so in rural Quebec.

I read about that a while ago. Apparently imported French movies and TV shows plus Metropolitan French speaking African immigrants are causing changes in pronunciation and the language police etc. don't know what to do, or even if they should do anything.
 
Does anyone have any sources on 18th century German pronunciation?
One thing I know is at the time was the /ch/ sound like in ich was always pronounced /kh/, a pronunciation that survives in Pennsylvania German. Other aspects of PA German have changed (drastically in some dialects) from continental German.
 
I read about that a while ago. Apparently imported French movies and TV shows plus Metropolitan French speaking African immigrants are causing changes in pronunciation and the language police etc. don't know what to do, or even if they should do anything.


A couple of other factors:

-Québécois artists and TV producers who want to succeed overseas have to adopt a more "international" pronunciation.

-There is also a very significant French (and Belgian) expatriate community in Quebec nowadays, numbering perhaps 150,000 (in a total population of 8 million), and concentrated especially in Montreal, and it may be influencing speech as well.

There are, however, plenty of Québécois who are proud of their own accent and find a Metropolitan accent to sound a little snobby.
 

katchen

Banned
WHAAAA??? What do the Brits call those? :eek:
I know that in the UK and Australia, a diaper is called a nappie (Sorry Napoleon):eek:
And what we call a napkin, Aussies call a serviette. Ask for a napkiin in Australia and if your accent dosen't give you away as a Yank, someone who half overhears is liable to look around for the baby!:rolleyes:
 
Dialect is one thing, usage another.

The broad rule is, the further from the home country, the older the usage tends to be. (No idea why. See The Story of English.)

Dialect is influenced by immigration, but also by relative isolation. Exactly how dialects evolve, IDK....:eek:
 
One thing I've noticed, is that when Americans pronounce the word 'herb', the H is always silent. I believe that everywhere else in the English speaking world, the H is not silent, although I'm not sure about Canada. I always wondered where that came from; possibly from the French 'herbe', also a silent H. [Americans used to love to emulate the French, at least the upper class ones did.]

Except New England, where we say the H
 
You can hear Quebecois French here in France when my neighbours speak in Poitvine, the local patois, rather than French. This is whence came the settlers to Canada.

You're close, but not quite right. It's in fact the Acadians and their Louisiana cousins whose roots in the Poitou are the strongest. I discovered this about a decade back when doing research for a thesis on the evolution of the French language in North America that Hurricane Katrina never allowed me to finish. While both groups were mainly peopled by settlers from the provinces along the Atlantic and Channel coasts, the main settler base for Québec was slightly more Norman than Poitevin, whereas the settlers in Acadia and Louisiana tended to be slightly more Poitevin than Norman.
 
Language conservatism is probably the reason why people think that Brazilian Portuguese is closer to Spanish than European Portuguese, considering that we can rule linguistic contact out, as most parts of Brazil had virtually no contact with the rest of Latin America.

If you people are interested, you could search for the historical Brazilian movie called "Desmundo" which (successfully) recreates 16th century Portuguese.
 
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