Lands of Ice and Mice: An Alternate History of the Thule

@LunazimHawk

No, Iceland has Europeans and their diseases. The purpose of the theocracy is to avoid europeans and their diseases (and, preferably, help others avoid them too).
Invading Iceland would be the exact opposite of what the theocracy wants.
 
I don't know how much interest there still is here, but one thing I wanted to point out based on one of the last discussions here is why couldn't the Thule package arrive in Tibet via Japan? Japan has so many mountain regions which often made hard living for the people who lived there. Wouldn't it make sense for an enterprising Japanese lord to bring in some Kamchatkans (or even Thule) as peasants to his lands and plant Thule crops in the mountains, if only as feed for more work animals? That would be a good model for the practice to spread to Korea, China, and eventually from there Tibet (maybe by mid-18th century). It wouldn't be the complete Thule package, but it would be enough to feed some more people/animals (which would be the real value for the East Asian states and to a lesser extent the Tibetans). I think it's likely in East Asia that the Thule package would be a bit of a famine food and usually associated with animals, but in Tibet it's likely to be far more important.

Whew! I'm finally caught up!

Really enjoying this TL so far.

As did I. Read like 2/3 of this years ago, then decided to re-read it and finally finish it.
 
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I'm kind of interested about the Greenlandic Thule and their theocracy. Greenland is also one of the few places to be centralized in the Thule sphere, I'm kind of guessing they might begin military adventures later on. Shamanistic theocracy Thule invading Iceland has a nice ring to it.

Wow. I've been gone for a while.

To make a quick response. Iceland is not really invasion territory, being a more prosperous but more messed up place this ATL.

Manupataq's successors are aggressively proselytising in other directions, particularly Labrador, and around Hudson Bay, Ellesmere and Baffin.
 
Finally! I'm caught up all the way!
ahem
Anyway, this is truly amazing, and I can't wait for more official posts. I understand that the work on Europe has stalled out somewhat, and I'm really interested in what exactly has been going on in the Thule southern ranges in the Americas since they tipped over the edge into real agriculture, since I don't think much of that has been discussed aside from the Rocky mountains hybrid situation. Maybe some detail on how the Thule diseases have affected their southern neighbors beyond "they're being affected."
 
I think at this point the Thule have reached their peak. They've nearly circumnavigated the Earth, and hav colonized pretty much everything they can without getting into some serious tribal conflicts like in Kamchatka or with the Cree.

At this point the most they can do is try to resist European Imperialism.
 
I think at this point the Thule have reached their peak. They've nearly circumnavigated the Earth, and hav colonized pretty much everything they can without getting into some serious tribal conflicts like in Kamchatka or with the Cree.

At this point the most they can do is try to resist European Imperialism.
I was thinking about another potential Thule migration down south occurring after the Europeans start invading, as well as any potential diseases ravaging the population. I could see the second Thule diaspora hitting as down south as the Great Lakes, deeper into NW America, and so forth. Perhaps some of these new waves Thulic tribes even reach the Mikmaq, Salish, etc and instead assimilate into their groups instead of pushing or driving of them out.
 
I think at this point the Thule have reached their peak. They've nearly circumnavigated the Earth, and hav colonized pretty much everything they can without getting into some serious tribal conflicts like in Kamchatka or with the Cree.

At this point the most they can do is try to resist European Imperialism.
I concur.

My headcanon for how this TL would continue through the 1700s IF @DValdron ACTUALLY WANTED TO CONTINUE IT :
  • Since @DValdron was looking for excuses to have the Thule invent variation and I figured out a way for them to get it from the Japanese plausibly, this would probably happen. The "medicine man" who acquires Japanese medical information (and, most likely, claims to have invented it) will be viewed as extremely spiritually powerful, perhaps as the most spiritually powerful man(?) among the Transbering Thule. That he had not asked for weaponry from Japan would likely mean that he would be viewed as more trustworthy than the other Thule warlords by the Japanese, and that he had asked for medical information would result in him being viewed as more civilised, so the Japanese would be more likely to back him or his clients. I could see a scenario where he tries to copy the Japanese imperial cult, declaring himself to be [insert transliteration of tennô] and appointing another powerful warlord to be [insert transliteration of shogun], with other client warlords being [insert transliteration of daimyo], basically creating a cargo-cult Japan in the Subarctic, probably with Thuleised cargo-cult Shinto. This state would probably be backed by actual Japan. I could see proxy wars with Russia (which would back warlords who don’t like “cargo-cult Japan”).
  • The Hudson Bay coast of Nunavut, Labrador and Nunavik ends up split between European puppet states.
  • Greenland remains independent under Manupataq’s religion
  • Not sure what happens to the northern islands
  • The Mackenzie Valley and the Great Bear Lake and Great Slave Lake areas end up united under a warlord (see the opening post)
  • Europe stays more or less the same, although with a more powerful Sweden and a different dynamic in the “HRE".
  • The key question that affects the rest of the world is how the borders between the French, Spanish and British zones change
  • Will the American Revolution happen? It probably depends on the answer to the above question.
  • Will the French Revolution happen? Probably, but how it looks like depends on the answer to the question above.
 
Geez guys. It's not as if I'm sitting around doing nothing.

In the last couple of years, I've published a fantasy novel, The Mermaid's Tale, two volumes of the Greatest Unauthorized Doctor Stories, one volume of Lexx Unauthorized, two collections of stories - Dawn of Cthulhu and Giant Monsters Sing Sad Songs, released Bear Cavaly, I'm uploading another novel to Wattpad, I have four more collections of stories in development, delivered another fantasy novel, The Luck, to my publisher, I'm trying to market another novel, Princess of Asylum, I finally got my web site and blog up and running, I'm trying to edit the next volumes of Lexx and Unauthorized Doctor.

And I'm trying to maintain a full time career and make a living in the legal profession, which is a vampire for free time.

So yeah, I'd like to get back to this, and to Green Antarctica.

But stuff gets in the way.

Feel free to look up my other work.
 
Boo! Quit your job and finish this TL!

More seriously, congratulations on your publishing success! Also Lexx Unauthorized? How have I not heard this got released yet!?
 
I figured out a way for them to get it from the Japanese plausibly, this would probably happen. The "medicine man" who acquires Japanese medical information (and, most likely, claims to have invented it) will be viewed as extremely spiritually powerful, perhaps as the most spiritually powerful man(?) among the Transbering Thule. That he had not asked for weaponry from Japan would likely mean that he would be viewed as more trustworthy than the other Thule warlords by the Japanese, and that he had asked for medical information would result in him being viewed as more civilised, so the Japanese would be more likely to back him or his clients. I could see a scenario where he tries to copy the Japanese imperial cult, declaring himself to be [insert transliteration of tennô] and appointing another powerful warlord to be [insert transliteration of shogun], with other client warlords being [insert transliteration of daimyo], basically creating a cargo-cult Japan in the Subarctic, probably with Thuleised cargo-cult Shinto. This state would probably be backed by actual Japan. I could see proxy wars with Russia (which would back warlords who don’t like “cargo-cult Japan”).

That's not bad.

The Hudson Bay coast of Nunavut, Labrador and Nunavik ends up split between European puppet states.

British, French and Norwegian, yes.

Greenland remains independent under Manupataq’s religion

Successors reinforce the theocracy, based on xenophobia. There's lots of black market/gray market activity. Missionaries go out continually.

Not sure what happens to the northern islands

Not much. Mostly, it's a source of heroes and barbarians. Although the British meddle in Baffin Island, it's rather too fractious for any successful European meddling.

The Mackenzie Valley and the Great Bear Lake and Great Slave Lake areas end up united under a warlord (see the opening post)

Yep. Alaska and the Bering Thule will also be relatively independent, semi-unified polities.
Europe stays more or less the same, although with a more powerful Sweden and a different dynamic in the “HRE".

Western Europe is basically the same. Scandinavia and northern/eastern Europe will have different demographics. And Russian/Polish/Ukrainian history is going to work out differently. The Russians will still colonize Siberia, no one else is really in a position to do it.

The key question that affects the rest of the world is how the borders between the French, Spanish and British zones change. Will the American Revolution happen? It probably depends on the answer to the above question. Will the French Revolution happen? Probably, but how it looks like depends on the answer to the question above.

Sweden and Norway will support the French against their rivals, the British. So the British will not be nearly as successful in North America. They'll still have the seaboard colonies, and there's going to be tension there. It will go similarly, but not the same.

One thing that will happen in Asia, is that Kamchatka gets a lot more interesting. The Koryak, Chuchki and Italmen will be piled on top of one another. The leftovers of failed Thule colonisation will result in an adoption of Thule crops and some of the agricultural techniques among the semi-settled communities. The peninsula will become a trading interface between the Japanese and the Siberian Thule, with the evolution of Japanese trading posts into enclaves and cities, eventually dominating the peninsula and establishing a hierarchical feudal/apartheid state.
 
Boo! Quit your job and finish this TL!

More seriously, congratulations on your publishing success! Also Lexx Unauthorized? How have I not heard this got released yet!?

Ebook. First volume is out, covering the first season. The other volumes are written, I just have to edit them.

Basically, back in the day, I was invited by the creators to do a book about the series, visited the sets a bunch of times, conducted interviews, talked to everyone associated with it... and then the publisher bailed. I had no contract. So I figured... why not just release it as the book I wanted to write.

I wouldn't call it success - I write a lot, I'm putting things out there. But no one is sitting around waiting for the next D.G. Valdron release.

Still, keeps me sane.
 
Yes, I knew I recognized Dennis Valdron's name somewhere!

> But no one is sitting around waiting for the next D.G. Valdron release.

They are now, friend.
 
Yes, I knew I recognized Dennis Valdron's name somewhere!

> But no one is sitting around waiting for the next D.G. Valdron release.

They are now, friend.

Well, that's kind of flattering.

Currently, I'm working on a Kaiju novel for my Christmas break. It turns out that the South Korean monster, Yongary (1967) is in Public Domain. And coincidentally, so is the North Korean monster, Pulgasari (1984). So, I am writing epic kaiju battles, set adjacent to a crazy state, on the last place on Earth that the Cold War is still a thing, with lots of fascinating historical baggage.

I'm having fun.
 
Well, that's kind of flattering.

Currently, I'm working on a Kaiju novel for my Christmas break. It turns out that the South Korean monster, Yongary (1967) is in Public Domain. And coincidentally, so is the North Korean monster, Pulgasari (1984). So, I am writing epic kaiju battles, set adjacent to a crazy state, on the last place on Earth that the Cold War is still a thing, with lots of fascinating historical baggage.

I'm having fun.

That's the important thing :)
 
Found an interesting little tidbit. There is evidence that an Eskimo-Aluet migration into Asia carried genes from the first Americans to the Naukan and coastal Chukchi populations in Asia. Article here.

fasquardon
 
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