Lands of Ice and Mice: An Alternate History of the Thule

I wonder what will happen to Inuit Thules if some chucks of North America fall under European rule. Even if they set up some forts and do their stuff, the natives will already have absorbed the diseases and technology bought over. I can see the French and British doing what the Russians had done, simply doing a bloody war of attrition, building forts and venturing further inwards.
I'd like to see the Americans/Canadians tell the Thule's to get off the land, only to be greeted by gunfire.
 
I wonder what will happen to Inuit Thules if some chucks of North America fall under European rule. Even if they set up some forts and do their stuff, the natives will already have absorbed the diseases and technology bought over. I can see the French and British doing what the Russians had done, simply doing a bloody war of attrition, building forts and venturing further inwards.
I'd like to see the Americans/Canadians tell the Thule's to get off the land, only to be greeted by gunfire.

Well, this may be a bit of a spoiler, but there will be European infiltration of the Thule Realm. During the colonial period between 1700 to 1920, many Thule, perhaps all Thule Areas will see European rule. There is a chance that due to remoteness and density, some may preserve nominal or real independence into the modern era - most notably the McKenzie area, Alaska and the Bering regions. On the other hand, these regions are also the sites of Gold Rushes, so things will be quite interesting in the late 19th century.
 
Well, this may be a bit of a spoiler, but there will be European infiltration of the Thule Realm. During the colonial period between 1700 to 1920, many Thule, perhaps all Thule Areas will see European rule. There is a chance that due to remoteness and density, some may preserve nominal or real independence into the modern era - most notably the McKenzie area, Alaska and the Bering regions. On the other hand, these regions are also the sites of Gold Rushes, so things will be quite interesting in the late 19th century.
All of them? I get things like oil and whales (in addition to the precious metals you mentioned) being increasingly sought after, but what about the areas where there's really nothing of interest? Which is a sizable chunk of northern Canada?
 
All of them? I get things like oil and whales (in addition to the precious metals you mentioned) being increasingly sought after, but what about the areas where there's really nothing of interest? Which is a sizable chunk of northern Canada?

There is nothing of interest OTL, but in the Thule realms all those chunks are filled with towns and even some cities.
 
There is nothing of interest OTL, but in the Thule realms all those chunks are filled with towns and even some cities.
Towns with things of value - as defined by Thule culture. What would a European find valuable here? What would they tax that makes an Arctic campaign worth it? Is roseroot a valuable enough cash crop to warrant a colonial government/banana republic?
 
Towns with things of value - as defined by Thule culture. What would a European find valuable here? What would they tax that makes an Arctic campaign worth it? Is roseroot a valuable enough cash crop to warrant a colonial government/banana republic?

Well, the Icelandic and Sea Thule are already under the control of Norway. The Siberian Thule will run up against Russian expansion. Around Hudson Bay, including Labrador and Baffin, various colonial powers will be competing for the Roseroot trade, and access to and control of Hudson Bay will be critical for control of the fur trade. Even Greenland will be relatively accessible. So in the 17th and 18th Century, you'll see trading posts and low key European involvement. This may morph to greater or lesser degrees of direct control or protectorates into the 19th century. A real surge of European colonialism may come in the late 19th.
 
Well, the Icelandic and Sea Thule are already under the control of Norway. The Siberian Thule will run up against Russian expansion. Around Hudson Bay, including Labrador and Baffin, various colonial powers will be competing for the Roseroot trade, and access to and control of Hudson Bay will be critical for control of the fur trade. Even Greenland will be relatively accessible. So in the 17th and 18th Century, you'll see trading posts and low key European involvement. This may morph to greater or lesser degrees of direct control or protectorates into the 19th century. A real surge of European colonialism may come in the late 19th.

Scramble for the Arctic?
 
We're going to see an age of Musket Wars, like the Maori had done in New Zealand. Honestly I can see the Russians conquering the Siberia Thule due to pure manpower attrition, and probably re-use the political and economical tactics they used with the Chukchis. Alaska will probably be conquered, but in a more bloodier process.
 
We're going to see an age of Musket Wars, like the Maori had done in New Zealand. Honestly I can see the Russians conquering the Siberia Thule due to pure manpower attrition, and probably re-use the political and economical tactics they used with the Chukchis. Alaska will probably be conquered, but in a more bloodier process.
The Thule are going to enjoy quite a big manpower advantage on-theater, even considering plagues. Of course, Russians also have quite a bit of technological and organisational edge, so they might take over eventually, but it won't be an easy fight, like not at all. I am not very sure about Alaska.
 
Honestly Dvaldron this TL was the one that finally got me stop lurking around as a guest and make an account. On a further note, I for one welcome our new Thule Overlords.
 
About variolation :
Do the Thule need to come up with it themselves?
This is probably a long shot, but what if some above-average Thule shaman in coastal Siberia hears that Japanese medicine is capable of things that Thule medicine cannot do and requests to buy medical texts through the Matsumae, with the intention of passing off the findings as eir own and profiting off of the resulting prestige?
Also, I could see Russo-Japanese proxy wars in Siberia and maybe Alaska in the 1700s and 1800s, possibly with the French, English, Spanish, Mackenzian, Swedish(?) or possible future colonial successors trying to get a foot in the door.
These could escalate after the discovery of gold in Alaska and Yukon.
 
About variolation :
Do the Thule need to come up with it themselves?
This is probably a long shot, but what if some above-average Thule shaman in coastal Siberia hears that Japanese medicine is capable of things that Thule medicine cannot do and requests to buy medical texts through the Matsumae, with the intention of passing off the findings as eir own and profiting off of the resulting prestige?
Also, I could see Russo-Japanese proxy wars in Siberia and maybe Alaska in the 1700s and 1800s, possibly with the French, English, Spanish, Mackenzian, Swedish(?) or possible future colonial successors trying to get a foot in the door.
These could escalate after the discovery of gold in Alaska and Yukon.

Actually, very interesting notion there. Thule Shamans visiting or attempting to trade for knowledge/information/techniques from foreign lands? That seems well within the evolving Shamanic traditions, and Shamans travelling within Thule territories to visit and learn from each other.

Regarding Siberia, I'm actually thinking of some quite interesting interactions involving Japan, particularly around the Bering sea and Kamchatka peninsula.
 
Actually, very interesting notion there. Thule Shamans visiting or attempting to trade for knowledge/information/techniques from foreign lands? That seems well within the evolving Shamanic traditions, and Shamans travelling within Thule territories to visit and learn from each other.

Regarding Siberia, I'm actually thinking of some quite interesting interactions involving Japan, particularly around the Bering sea and Kamchatka peninsula.

Speaking of trade with the Matsumae, how have the Ainu faired? I'd assume they have better fortunes in this TL with increasingly larger trade going through the Kurils and Hokkaido.
 
About variolation :
Do the Thule need to come up with it themselves?
This is probably a long shot, but what if some above-average Thule shaman in coastal Siberia hears that Japanese medicine is capable of things that Thule medicine cannot do and requests to buy medical texts through the Matsumae, with the intention of passing off the findings as eir own and profiting off of the resulting prestige?
Also, I could see Russo-Japanese proxy wars in Siberia and maybe Alaska in the 1700s and 1800s, possibly with the French, English, Spanish, Mackenzian, Swedish(?) or possible future colonial successors trying to get a foot in the door.
These could escalate after the discovery of gold in Alaska and Yukon.

Reminds me of the discussions we had about Thule trade with Japan. I can see a pretty lively relationship of trading and raiding developing between Japan and the Thule (both, at the time of likely contact, would be chaotic, piratical and outward-looking societies).

I wonder if Buddhism might spread from Japan and Mongolia into the Thule lands? I am imagining internecine Buddhist conflicts among the Siberian Thule between Mongolian-derived Buddhism and Japanese-derived Buddhism. Or the clash between Buddhism, native Thulic faith systems and Christianity that might develop in the Mackenzie basin...

fasquardon
 
IIRC, Hokkaido was colonised originally to put room between the Russian SoI and Honshu. ITTL, the Matsumae are more competitive, and, because of that, act as a buffer zone, expanding Japan's SoI well north of Honshu.
 
I'm kind of interested about the Greenlandic Thule and their theocracy. Greenland is also one of the few places to be centralized in the Thule sphere, I'm kind of guessing they might begin military adventures later on. Shamanistic theocracy Thule invading Iceland has a nice ring to it.
 
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