Land of Turkey and Deer
- Thread starter 9 Fanged Hummingbird
- Start date
I'll see if I can get the next part up today. Been having computer problems lately, though.
Sorry for the inexcusable lack of progress. I've been very tired lately. But nevertheless, here is the next segment: Oh, and in case any of y'all are wondering, just about everything about the northern Yucatan up until the intervention of Dzibanche is not made up. The drama about Hunac Ceel is a real legend.
The Rise of the North; The Maya World on the Eve of Spanish Contact
As the cities of the south came under the thumb of the K'awiils of Dzibanche, and the kings of Pa' Chan and Saal, the Northern Lowlands, Yucatan proper, were flourishing more than ever. The Tutul Xiu family, rulers of the great city of Uxmal, controlled much of the land, including the massive port and market of Chunchucmil. But around the turn of the millennium, there were great migrations to the Land of Turkey and Deer. Mexicans, from the swamps of Tabasco and the hills of Oaxaca, were drawn by the wealth of the Maya. Among them were the Chontals, the Canuls, but most prominent were the Itzas, who spoke Yucatec brokenly. According to the native chronicles, the Itzas brought their lewd ways and sinful priests with them, and they were called rogues, for they had no mothers or fathers or they were disobedient to them [1].
When the Itzas came to Yucatan, they arrived at the city of Uuc Yabnal, in the east, and they took it for themselves, calling it Chichen Itza, At the Mouth of the Well of the Itzas. They made the city greater, and they were soon in league with the Xiu family of Uxmal. Together they dominated the north, fighting wars with the people to the south, and against cities not bending to their will. But the League of the Yucatan was not without its own rifts between the allies.
Hunac Ceel Cauich, an Itza noble of the important Cocom family, volunteered to be thrown into the Sacred Cenote of Chichen Itza, a request which the lord Ah Mex Cuc Chan had to agree. When Hunac Ceel came back to the surface after a whole night in the water, he came with a prophecy of coming rain and harvests and that he would be Lord of Mayapan, and allied city of Uxmal and Chichen, under the sponsorship of Ah Mex Cuc. This was done, and so the seeds for the fall of the Itza were sown, and soon the fates of north and south Yucatan were to be linked.
Izamal, a city which had much grievances in regard to the sacrifice of their youths to the idols at Chichen Itza, was even more greatly insulted by the new Itza king, Chac-xib-Chac. But this insult was in actuality caused by the machinations and the plotting of Hunac Ceel. During the wedding of the lord Ah Ulil of Izamal, which all the lords of Yucatan attended, Hunac Ceel concocted a love potion, which he gave to Chac-xib-Chac, and when Chac-xib-Chac saw the wife of Ah Ulil, he fell in love with her and carried her away to Chichen.
Insulted, the lord of Izamal pledged vengeance, to which Hunac Ceel happily agreed to lead the army consisting of the men of Mayapan, Izamal, Uxmal, Ake, Ichcanzihoo, and a large host of Mexican mercenaries from Tabasco against the city of the Itzas. Chac-xib-Chac was killed, and so were many lords. The high priest Hapay Can [2] was brought to Uxmal where he became an addition to the skull-rack. [3] The Itzas would have fled south, were it not for the intervention of Dzibanche, who wanted no Itzas in their city, so they installed a puppet king on the mat of Chichen Itza, to which Hunac Ceel, Ah Ulil, and Itzimthul Chac, lords of the north, agreed with some reluctance. In this year, on the day 10.19.18.5.12, 9 Eb 5 Pop (October 9th, 1222) Dzibanche was added to the League of Mayapan, which became the country now known as the League of Yucatan with the hopes of soon representing all of the lands of the Maya.
From this time, the land was ruled thusly, it was officially to be ruled equally from Dzibanche, Mayapan, and Uxmal in addition to other, less prominent cities. The big three were only the most noted and typically the most powerful. These cities and the cities each ruled directly were to govern themselves however they wished but obey the leading Triumvirate. Lords of cities of the second rank were selected on a rotational basis to become Lord of the Katun, who was officially the supreme leader for the 20 years of his office but in practice was at best on equal standing with the leading three. Seats of katun, cities chosen to receive tribute rights and rights to confirm titles, were also chosen on a 20 year rotational basis, and were the de facto capital for their time. Councils of sages and prophets were called in times of religious and calendrical crises, and much resembles the Vatican Councils.
There were often minor conflicts within the League, even as they attempted to bring more cities further south into the fold. Most common were rifts between the Mexican migrant groups such as the Itza and Chontal, the Yucatecans of the northern lowland, and the Ch'olan Maya of the southern lowlands. They competed often, not usually militarily, for more power and rights to be the seat of a katun or have the spokesmen or the lord of a katun. These issues were typically solved by discussion in the councils of lords, or when no decision could be made the feuding lords often settled it over a ball game. The League continued living on in this way, growing and morphing very dynamically, up until the year 1502, in which everything which two different worlds knew were to change.
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[1] As the appendices to the Books of Chilam Balam say, this was a mild statement as it was claimed by the Yucatec Maya and/or the Spanish that the Itzas had the custom of beheading the men who passed the age of 50, except for the priests. This might be true, or at least was a common insult against "eastern" Mexicans as I've heard the same from a source I can't remember attributed to the Zapotecs.
[2] It is unsure who or what Hapay Can was, but here I am assuming he was a priest.
[3] Here is where I begin to diverge from the history of the northern Yucatan.
The Rise of the North; The Maya World on the Eve of Spanish Contact
As the cities of the south came under the thumb of the K'awiils of Dzibanche, and the kings of Pa' Chan and Saal, the Northern Lowlands, Yucatan proper, were flourishing more than ever. The Tutul Xiu family, rulers of the great city of Uxmal, controlled much of the land, including the massive port and market of Chunchucmil. But around the turn of the millennium, there were great migrations to the Land of Turkey and Deer. Mexicans, from the swamps of Tabasco and the hills of Oaxaca, were drawn by the wealth of the Maya. Among them were the Chontals, the Canuls, but most prominent were the Itzas, who spoke Yucatec brokenly. According to the native chronicles, the Itzas brought their lewd ways and sinful priests with them, and they were called rogues, for they had no mothers or fathers or they were disobedient to them [1].
When the Itzas came to Yucatan, they arrived at the city of Uuc Yabnal, in the east, and they took it for themselves, calling it Chichen Itza, At the Mouth of the Well of the Itzas. They made the city greater, and they were soon in league with the Xiu family of Uxmal. Together they dominated the north, fighting wars with the people to the south, and against cities not bending to their will. But the League of the Yucatan was not without its own rifts between the allies.
Hunac Ceel Cauich, an Itza noble of the important Cocom family, volunteered to be thrown into the Sacred Cenote of Chichen Itza, a request which the lord Ah Mex Cuc Chan had to agree. When Hunac Ceel came back to the surface after a whole night in the water, he came with a prophecy of coming rain and harvests and that he would be Lord of Mayapan, and allied city of Uxmal and Chichen, under the sponsorship of Ah Mex Cuc. This was done, and so the seeds for the fall of the Itza were sown, and soon the fates of north and south Yucatan were to be linked.
Izamal, a city which had much grievances in regard to the sacrifice of their youths to the idols at Chichen Itza, was even more greatly insulted by the new Itza king, Chac-xib-Chac. But this insult was in actuality caused by the machinations and the plotting of Hunac Ceel. During the wedding of the lord Ah Ulil of Izamal, which all the lords of Yucatan attended, Hunac Ceel concocted a love potion, which he gave to Chac-xib-Chac, and when Chac-xib-Chac saw the wife of Ah Ulil, he fell in love with her and carried her away to Chichen.
Insulted, the lord of Izamal pledged vengeance, to which Hunac Ceel happily agreed to lead the army consisting of the men of Mayapan, Izamal, Uxmal, Ake, Ichcanzihoo, and a large host of Mexican mercenaries from Tabasco against the city of the Itzas. Chac-xib-Chac was killed, and so were many lords. The high priest Hapay Can [2] was brought to Uxmal where he became an addition to the skull-rack. [3] The Itzas would have fled south, were it not for the intervention of Dzibanche, who wanted no Itzas in their city, so they installed a puppet king on the mat of Chichen Itza, to which Hunac Ceel, Ah Ulil, and Itzimthul Chac, lords of the north, agreed with some reluctance. In this year, on the day 10.19.18.5.12, 9 Eb 5 Pop (October 9th, 1222) Dzibanche was added to the League of Mayapan, which became the country now known as the League of Yucatan with the hopes of soon representing all of the lands of the Maya.
From this time, the land was ruled thusly, it was officially to be ruled equally from Dzibanche, Mayapan, and Uxmal in addition to other, less prominent cities. The big three were only the most noted and typically the most powerful. These cities and the cities each ruled directly were to govern themselves however they wished but obey the leading Triumvirate. Lords of cities of the second rank were selected on a rotational basis to become Lord of the Katun, who was officially the supreme leader for the 20 years of his office but in practice was at best on equal standing with the leading three. Seats of katun, cities chosen to receive tribute rights and rights to confirm titles, were also chosen on a 20 year rotational basis, and were the de facto capital for their time. Councils of sages and prophets were called in times of religious and calendrical crises, and much resembles the Vatican Councils.
There were often minor conflicts within the League, even as they attempted to bring more cities further south into the fold. Most common were rifts between the Mexican migrant groups such as the Itza and Chontal, the Yucatecans of the northern lowland, and the Ch'olan Maya of the southern lowlands. They competed often, not usually militarily, for more power and rights to be the seat of a katun or have the spokesmen or the lord of a katun. These issues were typically solved by discussion in the councils of lords, or when no decision could be made the feuding lords often settled it over a ball game. The League continued living on in this way, growing and morphing very dynamically, up until the year 1502, in which everything which two different worlds knew were to change.
------------
[1] As the appendices to the Books of Chilam Balam say, this was a mild statement as it was claimed by the Yucatec Maya and/or the Spanish that the Itzas had the custom of beheading the men who passed the age of 50, except for the priests. This might be true, or at least was a common insult against "eastern" Mexicans as I've heard the same from a source I can't remember attributed to the Zapotecs.
[2] It is unsure who or what Hapay Can was, but here I am assuming he was a priest.
[3] Here is where I begin to diverge from the history of the northern Yucatan.
Bump
So nobody's interested in seeing what happens when the Spanish finally come and the real interesting parts (for you guys at least) begin? *sigh* Ah, well.
So nobody's interested in seeing what happens when the Spanish finally come and the real interesting parts (for you guys at least) begin? *sigh* Ah, well.
I'm interesting, I'm really enjoying this, it's just that sometimes I don't have time to comment or can't think of something pertinent to comment on.
One thing that would worry me with regards to the Spaniards is even if the Mayans successfully resist them we still have to worry about the new diseases. Will they be strong enough to resist after diseases like smallpox have started spreading?
Well in regards to the diseases, I think these Maya can push the first wave of Spanish back before the diseases begin to take their toll, and with the higher population of the non-Collapsed Maya they can win via the numbers game and adapting to Spanish tactics. The first wave of conquest will be starting in 1517, but the Maya would already have had experience with the Spaniards before this, beginning with an encounter with none other than Christopher Columbus himself...
Well, enough spoilers, I'll try to get the next bit up sometime today or tomorrow. Times gonna progress slower in the TL than it has so far, that's for sure.
Well, enough spoilers, I'll try to get the next bit up sometime today or tomorrow. Times gonna progress slower in the TL than it has so far, that's for sure.
Oops, looks like I forgot about this website for quite a while, this thread too. Been rather distracted lately. I'll try to find some way to remember all the stuff I had planned and get the next chapter bit up sometime this week. Sorry for the delay. I know I'm lazy, my bad!
Hopefully there might be an update. I didn't forget about this, but I did get lazy. That, and my mind goes through various phases repeatedly for varying times about the subject I am most fascinated with, and for now it's been the USSR. But I am trying to get an update done. Main problem (aside from me being a lazy ass) is research. I am not very well-read on the Spanish at all and butterflies from this will affect them somehow. And even worse: calendrics. Oh, how I hate calendrics. And yes, you might say "Oh you don't need to post the Mayan date, it's not very important" but it goes beyond that. Far beyond. Looking into it, it seems they are completely obsessed with time. Calendrics decide capitals, religious centers, tributary rights, etc... madness all of it!
So just keep your fingers crossed. At this point I can't promise anything but there may be an update.
So just keep your fingers crossed. At this point I can't promise anything but there may be an update.
I'm with you. Fully understand. And I for one am willing to wait for quality. Be glad to see it then!
Bumped because I like the Maya too and it's a cool idea. And the style is neat, and I would like to see Contact. Good job, that man!
That said: the ruling dynasty of Mutul was Toltec? Ehem, no. They were Tenochtitlani - the Toltecs were much, much later. And I take a bit of an issue with your lack of butterflies up north - the post-Classic north was based off survivors coming out of the wreck of the south. If the south never collapses, the north will get developed, yes, but it will do so straight up as part of the southern system. When the Itza arrive they'll have a lot more trouble taking over, if they even can. And finally - I'm not sure about the fall of Mutul creating a unified south is that plausible. After all, that happened IOTL in 562 and all that meant was that the allies turned on each other, Mutul recovered, and things went on. I'm kind of doubtful the Mayans could hold things together any more than the Greeks could (the Greeks never had less than two competing alliances; even after, eg, Sparta's victory in the Pelopenesian War, half the neutrals started moving together just because of how big Sparta was. I suspect the Mayans would be the same way). OTOH, even a divided surviving Classic civilization would be interesting.
That said, great TL! I'd love to see more.
That said: the ruling dynasty of Mutul was Toltec? Ehem, no. They were Tenochtitlani - the Toltecs were much, much later. And I take a bit of an issue with your lack of butterflies up north - the post-Classic north was based off survivors coming out of the wreck of the south. If the south never collapses, the north will get developed, yes, but it will do so straight up as part of the southern system. When the Itza arrive they'll have a lot more trouble taking over, if they even can. And finally - I'm not sure about the fall of Mutul creating a unified south is that plausible. After all, that happened IOTL in 562 and all that meant was that the allies turned on each other, Mutul recovered, and things went on. I'm kind of doubtful the Mayans could hold things together any more than the Greeks could (the Greeks never had less than two competing alliances; even after, eg, Sparta's victory in the Pelopenesian War, half the neutrals started moving together just because of how big Sparta was. I suspect the Mayans would be the same way). OTOH, even a divided surviving Classic civilization would be interesting.
That said, great TL! I'd love to see more.
I've been meaning to reply to this. Pretty cool, but one thing to note: With stone tools slash and burn really does not work. See here: http://books.google.com/books?id=vS...resnum=3&ved=0CA4Q6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=&f=false
On your first point, I think both of us are mixed up. I must've said Toltec then thinking Toltec was interchangeable with Teotihuacano, but I'm sure I'm wrong. And you've mixed up Teotihuacan and Tenochtitlan. The northern lack of butterflies was a bit of handwavium, I admit. And there is still a major southern alliance in the highlands led by Kaminaljuyu. Thanks for the support!
