Land of Flatwater: Protect and Survive Middle America

[Lemon flavoured]

Just eleven more days.

BTW, chipperback, if you want to find out the wind direction, go to www.wunderground.com and look up the historical records of the towns mentioned to get the wind direction and speed.

Good so far.

This might be seen as pedantic, but it's pretty likely that the weather would be different, since the POD was months before.

 

[Chipperback]

"Any interception would be hampered by the fact that airbases with fighter aircraft would have been largely taken out.

Something like that would make regular air force highly vulnerable. That's why aerial assets are going to be spread out among a number of smaller airfields in smaller cities. Similar to what SAC would do with the Bombers, move them around. Make the Soviets chase them a little.,

Biggest issues for the 173th will be fuel and spare parts. Same as everybody else when the bombs hit. The thing about Nebraska is that the state has two "must-hit" targets. The SAC Command and the Minuteman silos in southwest Nebraska. After that its anything goes...

 

[ivfl]

There is a certain limit to how much spreading can be done.You can't use every airfield for jet fighters there are certain basic requirements.Plus without operational radar stations its very hard to intercept incoming bombers.Of course the main problem for Nebraska are all the strikes on the ICBM fields which would make a large portion of the state a no-go for years to come add to that the certainty that some soviet ICBM's would miss their target by more than 10 km and fallout would affect other theoretically safe areas.

 

[Chipperback]

"Nebraska are all the strikes on the ICBM fields which would make a large portion of the state a no-go for years to come add to that the certainty that some soviet ICBM's would miss their target by more than 10 km and fallout would affect other theoretically safe areas.

Or at least the Southwest corner of the state, where the silos are.

As for interceptions, a lot of it was going to be "spray and pray" for Husker 173 anyway. But that could be mitigated by one simple variable of living in my home state. There ain't that much to hit.

Now the miss factor will come into play, and so will the "who got hit factor". Nebraska is sandwiched between two states that have a lot of real estate the Soviets want to hit. The silos and bases in the Dakotas and Kansas. Cheyenne to the west. Omaha/Offutt to the east. In the blunt analysis nothing going to be "safe". You'll have radiation, famine, sickness, and the way humans act under durress working against us, and that last thing is the most unpredictable variable of them all.

 

[Chipperback]

" I feel, add a more nuanced tone if this was not simply 'Black Hats vs White Hats'.

A very valid point, and for the most part the "black hats" have been the leaders on both sides.

I plead guilty, but only to the concept that was the tenor of the times. Remember, we have two leaders who have never seen the other guy's side of the hill, ever.

Andropov had never been outside the communist world. Reagan's knowledge of the Eastern bloc is based in a fear of it that has lastest since before he was a the straight man to chimpanzee.

But now, Flatwater really catches up to the rest of the arc of this Timeline.

It's time to head down the rabbit hole, but we aren't going to Wonderland.

 

[kent]

I think you are forgetting that the people running the West, NATO, all remember that their fathers allowed WWII by trying appeasement towards Hilter. That they see giving into the Warsaw Pack as just that appeasement to the Communist world. While the Leaders of The Warsaw Pack see the west as weak and unwilling to stand up to aggression. Not all Black and White forsure but NATO is not the one pushing the fight. Instead of trying to rewrite what the leaders of NATO were doing and thinking, why not some questions from the the peace at any price groups towards the Warsaw Pack?
Your story is great, well written, and full of good data. I just feel it's slanted towards the idea of peace at any price. I also feel the same towards the other two threads running the same idea of the tv show "The Day After".

A very valid point, and for the most part the "black hats" have been the leaders on both sides.

I plead guilty, but only to the concept that was the tenor of the times. Remember, we have two leaders who have never seen the other guy's side of the hill, ever.

Andropov had never been outside the communist world. Reagan's knowledge of the Eastern bloc is based in a fear of it that has lastest since before he was a the straight man to chimpanzee.

But now, Flatwater really catches up to the rest of the arc of this Timeline.

It's time to head down the rabbit hole, but we aren't going to Wonderland.

 

[ObssesedNuker]

While the Leaders of The Warsaw Pack see the west as weak and unwilling to stand up to aggression.

:sigh:

The Warsaw Pact also remembers World War 2 and they took a different-yet-similar lesson from it: never let yourself be attacked and never ignore the possibility of an attack. Remember how the Soviet Union entered World War 2 proper? With a massive German invasion that ushered in a massive slaughter that the world had never seen before.

Just as the Western Allies learned in 1939 that the Nazis were not interested in appeasement, the Soviets learned that passivity in the face of a potential enemy could be devestating. Since the Soviets are pretty much the force in the Warsaw Pact, their views were their allies views.

So, in other words, you have a case of two parties. Thus, NATO thinks that the Warsaw Pact is trying to take advantage of them if they show weakness and acts aggressive in response. The the Warsaw Pact thinks that NATO's actions are preperation for an attack against the Soviet client states and, ultimately, the Soviet Union itself.

Both sides misunderstand the other, nobody takes a step back and really asks: "hey, maybe both of us are spooking each other out"

And is that really all that surprising?

PS: Whatever the price we must pay for peace, it is much less then the price of nuclear war.

 

[Chipperback]

"I just feel it's slanted towards the idea of peace at any price. I also feel the same towards the other two threads running the same idea of the tv show "The Day After".

I respectfully disagree with you. All I'm doing with my piece if giving a glimpse of a time that could have been and in some ways was. I think that is the mission of all these times.
To think that because a person is pushing for peace that they believe in peace "at any price" isn't a fair statement. If anything it is the typical slur I've heard my entire life marching, pushing and voting for peace and social justice. To me it is just as wrong as saying that if you support military action, you automatically are a warmonger.

"why not some questions from the the peace at any price groups towards the Warsaw Pack?

Actually, those question do get asked and back then among anti-nuclear groups they were often asked of both sides. But we also have to remember that ultimately such questions have to be ask and answered within that citizenry. In this case, the Soviet citizenry. You ultimately needed activist in Omsk doing what people in Omaha were doing, and when those people in Omsk had a society that was open to those questions they did get asked.

And about the "The Day After"...and "Threads" for that matter. I don't see those as giving a message of "peace at any price". if anything Nicholas Mayer, Mick Jackson and Barry Hines just said..."We did some research. Here's our findings you make up your mind.

And it did make an impact. In 1987 Meyer got a nice telegram that said:

"Don't think your movie didn't have anything to do with this, because it did."
-- President Ronald Reagan November 1987, after signing of the Intermediate Nuclear Forces Treaty

Back to Flatwater -- Heading to Midnight

 

[posbi]

And it did make an impact. In 1987 Meyer got a nice telegram that said:

"Don't think your movie didn't have anything to do with this, because it did."
-- President Ronald Reagan November 1987, after signing of the Intermediate Nuclear Forces Treaty

Wow, really? Never heard of that anecdote, but if it's true: cool.

 

[Hörnla]

I completely agree with "Obsessed Nuker" here. The more I read about the early 1980s, the more apparent becomes the almost clinical paranoia of the pre-Gorbachev Sovjet leadership. Ronald Reagon stated that the events around "Able Archer" in 1983 showed him, to his complete surprise, that the leaders in the Kremlin were utterly afraid of the west.

---

My feeling is that the author doesn't neccesarily take a stance towards "peace at any price". Were it so, he would probably not invest his time into writing this timeline, but prove his point by writing one where Washington capitulates and the American way of life suffers less harm through some decades of Sovjet domination than through 3000 (or more) nuclear warheads hitting the United States.

He also wouldn't take pains to create a good level of preparedness in Nebraska which makes survival a possibility. Because surivability means winning a nuclear war.

 

[JasonQ]

The thing about Nebraska is that the state has two "must-hit" targets. The SAC Command and the Minuteman silos in southwest Nebraska. After that its anything goes...

I've got to think Lincoln's on the short list - that ANG base has tanker jets and a very long runway (it was an alternate landing site for the Shuttle). North Platte is a fat target, too - huge railyards there.

I guess that's one of the central uncertainties I've always had regarding a full-on nuclear war - namely, what they'd go after. You point out quite accurately the "must-hit" targets...especially in 1984, that's a hell of a long list in itself. But what comes after that?

Do they try, for example, to dig out every runway long enough to handle a B-52? Bridges, dams, railyards, power plants? Refineries, port facilities...what else?

Stuart Slade talked about this to a limited extent in his "Nuclear Warfare 101" essays, but I'd love to hear some more specific info on the subject.

 

[Hörnla]

Wow, really? Never heard of that anecdote, but if it's true: cool.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Day_After#Reaction

According to wikipedia, Nicholas Meyer himself denied that the telegram existed.

But Reagan himself, who got to see the movie a few days before it was aired, later stated that it left him behind "greatly depressed" and that it was apparently part of the inspiration to come to terms with the Sovjet Union.

Also as to Wikipedia, "The Day After" was shown in Sovjet TV in 1987. Now I would be curious to see in what way the movie was presented - and received - in that different audience.

 

[Falkenburg]

Crumbs! Didn't mean to open such a can of worms.

I only mentioned the matter as there is a (very understandable) tendency for many 'Westerners' to view the Soviet Union as having been a faceless Monolith that was intent on global domination for no discernible reason.

Once the missiles start flying any attempt at a nuanced appreciation of the situation will be met with a sharp (and probably pungent) response.

I just thought introducing a 'shade of grey' before the fatal escalation might have made for a more realistic/complicated 'Flashpoint'.

I'm not quite old enough to have had a clear contemporaneous perception of the events and times (83 =6/7).
To be honest, even if I had been, I probably would have been more focused on local/domestic issues (NI).

It was a very minor point about an insignificant aspect (IMO) of what has been and continues to be, a fantastic Story.

Midnight approaches.
Soon the only shades of grey to be found will be in the ashes of a world sacrificed on the pyres of intransigence and belligerence.
Good luck Chip.

Falkenburg

 

[ivfl]

Exactly what has been declared by the germans.According to german law the term should be 'state of defence'(http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/e...te of defence is worse than state of tension.

 

[posbi]

Spaces, man! For the love of God, spaces!

 

[Chipperback]

"Crumbs! Didn't mean to open such a can of worms.

Shush Penfold No can of worms were harmed in this discussion. This was a very healthy discussion and I'm enjoying this, just like I'm enjoying my first TL being part of a much bigger universe.

One of the things I took a lot of care to do was to present a balanced view of the people within this piece. There aren't any Wolfie Smiths or Jack D. Rippers around. There's just a lot of folks who are trying to get through and do what they do the very best they can in a situation that is not necessarily of their choosing.

 

[Archangel]

"We're dead!!!!!! They bombed us!!!"

Chip parents raced into the room..."Son!!!!" His dad said. Dad and Mom both hugging Chip..."I couldn't make it to the shelter!" He wailed. His parents held him.."Sssh! Sssh!" His mom said. "You had a bad dream. It's okay.."

"Where's my mom and dad!!!!!!!!!!!!" Chip wailed. "Mama!!!!!!! Dad!!!!!!"

"Son its okay," Dad said. "We're here Chip. We're here!"

Chip couldn't stop crying. He was hysterical with fear. "I was playing ball in the park, and...it...it..it happened."

"It didn't happen, Chip," his father comforted. "We're here, son."

Chip looked up as his mom and dad. "I love you mama...I love you dad. I'm sorry I woke you...It was just so real! I'm scared!!!!"

I was very young in those days, but the fear ITTL would have been deep among most people, even if they hide it.

"Again reporting this bulletin. A series of explosions rock Munich Airport. Several aircraft were damaged. One aircraft, now confirmed as a United States Air Force C-141B Cargo plane, which were carrying 60 passenger, mostly family of Air Force personnel was completely lost. Officials estimate 150 dead, hundreds more wounded. This incident comes one day after West German counterterrorism forces clashed with suspected terrorists."

Gail looked at the screen in shock. Chip's nightmares, in that instant, lived on that screen.

This is NBC Nightly News with Tom Brokaw......
"Good Evening. West Germany has declared a State of Emergency tonight after a series of explosions heavily damage Munich Airport. Over 200 people were killed in the blasts including the an Air Force flight crew and families member of U.S. servicemen in an Air Force cargo plane.

"The shockwaves of the attacks have been felt across Western Europe. West German Chancellor Helmet Kohl activated a national State of Emergency, similar actions have been taken in Belgium, Holland, Italy and France. The British Parliament are meeting at this hour, and NBC News sources says Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher is considering a number of emergency options.

"The U.S. response has been swift. President Reagan, in a statement called the bombing, "Naked, cold and cruel. A further sign of the Soviet disregard for life." American military forces are gearing up to a state of readiness unseen since the Cuban Missile Crisis."

to be continued.

The Soviet provocations and attempts to undermine the morale of the West will lead to escalation.

Keep it up, Chipperback!

 

[Ingsoc75]

Very good story Chip! I was eight years old in 1984 and grew up in St. Louis.

Half of my family lives in Omaha and we even had a family reunion up there in the summer of 1984 (sadly it won't take place in this timeline).

 

[The Uchronian]

Very good story Chip! I was eight years old in 1984 and grew up in St. Louis.

Half of my family lives in Omaha and we even had a family reunion up there in the summer of 1984 (sadly it won't take place in this timeline).

I might've had a few family members up there too..........grandma was from Beatrice, NE, just a hop, skip, and a jump from the border with Kansas.

 

[ivfl]

It should be remembered that once the shooting starts not just in Europe proper would there be fighting.The US would also target Cam Rahn Bay in Vietnam at the time it had a large soviet naval presence,Tartus in Syria also soviet naval presence,Cuba would receive strikes because of the Lourdes SIGINT station near Havana.Along these places we would have fighting on the japanese-soviet maritime border and naval clashes across the world.Beside these certain places of conflict we would probably have a restart of the Korean war,North Korea could decide that since war has started with a likely nuclear conflict its better to be caught on the offensive than the defensive,probable restart of fighting between Syria and Israel,possible fighting on the soviet-chinese border to name a few.All this in only 3 days of conventional war once the nuclear phase is reached it doesn't matter anymore.