Land of Flatwater: Protect and Survive Middle America

Good! The BCS is one of the worst thing to happen to happen to college football.

And poor Villanova. Philadelphia is no more and only 9 or so weeks before they were destined to become the lowest seed ever to win a National Championship.


EDIT: Speaking of basketball, how is Nebraska at basketball? I've always thought of them as a football school whereas Kansas barely has a football program (not that my New Mexico could beat them) and is a basketball school.
 
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"EDIT: Speaking of basketball, how is Nebraska at basketball? I've always thought of them as a football school whereas Kansas barely has a football program (not that my New Mexico could beat them) and is a basketball school.

Nebraska is one of only two teams in the BCS Conferences (ACC, Big East, Big 10, Big 12, SEC, Pac-10) who have never won a game in the NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament. My alma mater, Northwestern, is the other one, and are on the only school in the BCS Conferences who hasn't made an appearance in the NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament

In OTL 1983-1984, Nebraska qualified for the NIT tournament, but they swept Kansas during the Big 8 Conference regular season.
In ITTL, Nebraska basketball was in the hunt for the tournament bid when the Big 8 Conference voted to postpone the schedule after the games of February 13, 1984 due to worries of teams on the road in the event of an attack.

Kansas football was a power in the Big 8 in the 1960s, including a couple Orange Bowl bids in the decade and they will always one major piece of bragging rights over Nebraska. In 1960 Kansas recruited the best high school player in Nebraska to Lawrence..He turned out to be pretty good...

His name is Gale Sayers.
 
In OTL 1983-1984, Nebraska qualified for the NIT tournament, but they swept Kansas during the Big 8 Conference regular season.
In ITTL, Nebraska basketball was in the hunt for the tournament bid when the Big 8 Conference voted to postpone the schedule after the games of February 13, 1984 due to worries of teams on the road in the event of an attack.

That always has to blow, last year New Mexico swept BYU during the regular season, only to lose to them in the MWC tournament.

Kansas football was a power in the Big 8 in the 1960s, including a couple Orange Bowl bids in the decade and they will always one major piece of bragging rights over Nebraska. In 1960 Kansas recruited the best high school player in Nebraska to Lawrence..He turned out to be pretty good...

His name is Gale Sayers.

Cool. My knowledge of sports doesn't go further back that the '80s and even then it get murky until the turn of the century.
 
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"It was tough to lose to youse guys, kid...Your was team was tough to coach against. You probably would have been happy to see the Huskers called to be in the tournament, if there had been a tournament. Today was supposed to be the day the bids came out." the voice said..

"I wish I was playing basketball right now with my team back home," Chip said to the voice on the other end, "My name is Chip...what is yours?"

"My name is Larry. And I am glad to hear another voice still alive out there," The voice said mournfully.

"How bad is it, coach?"

"It's very sad, kid," his Brooklyn accent tinged in a longing sadness. "Near me is one of the great places in the game I love.... and now it's a morgue."

to be continued

Nice shoutout to The Day After. Apparently, Professor Huxley (and/or others) finally got ahold of somebody on his radio.

I had wondered, ITTL, when sporting events and other public gatherings would have been suspended.

And, nice job on the TL. I eagerly await the next chapters.
 
Nice shoutout to The Day After. Apparently, Professor Huxley (and/or others) finally got ahold of somebody on his radio.

I had wondered, ITTL, when sporting events and other public gatherings would have been suspended.

And, nice job on the TL. I eagerly await the next chapters.


IIRC Huxley's first name was Joe, not Larry, unless it wasn't supposed to literally be the same guy.
 
You're correct. Larry is legendary basketball coach Larry Brown, who was in his first season at Kansas as I recall.
 
I abstain from the computer Fridays (for penance) and now Sundays (to keep the day holy), so I just read the Exchange post.
I have also started listening to Christmas music online.
The combination is totally weird.
 
Questions about the TL

I had wondered, ITTL, when sporting events and other public gatherings would have been suspended.

ESPN SportsCenter...January 29, 1984.

BOOMER: "Good Evening and Welcome to SportsCenter...Chris Berman here along with Greg Gumbel."

GREG: "And if you love the NBA, you really loved today's All-Star Game in Denver with as the greatest players in pro basketball put on a thrilling Overtime classic, but our top story tonight concerns how the sports world is affected by the possibility of war between the Superpowers."

BOOMER: "The world of sport has been touched by today's tragic incident involving a Dutch airliner shot down by Warsaw Pact fighter planes. The International Olympic Committee decided earlier today that the upcoming Winter Olympic games scheduled to start February 8th in Sarajevo, Yugoslavia will be postponed citing concerns over the build up of military forces in Europe by both the United States and the Soviet Union."

BOOMER: "The announcement comes after month were even as the threat of war grew, the games went forward. ESPN's Bob Ley is with us now, Bob how far could this go."

BOB LEY: "A lot depends on the state of the world, but one of the biggest events on the calendar in the sporting world will be pushed back, and that could lead other sporting organizations to do the same"

TAKE SOT -- JUAN ANTONIO SAMARANCH/IOC CHAIRMAN
"GIVEN SUNDAY'S EVENTS OVER GREECE, AND THE INCREASED PRESENCE OF SOVIET MILITARY FORCES IN YUGOSLAVIA AND NATO ALLIANCE FORCES ON THEIR BORDERS, THE SITUATION IS REGRETTABLY TOO VOLATILE AND UNSAFE FOR THE COMPETITORS AND OFFICIALS TO HAVE AN OLYMPIC GAMES AT THIS TIME."

LEY REPORTER TRACK ONE
THE IOC'S DECISION TODAY INDEFINITELY POSTPONED THE WINTER OLYMPICS WAS THE FIRST OLYMPIC GAMES POSTPONED SINCE 1940, WHEN THE SUMMER AND WINTER GAMES WERE SCHEDULED TO BE HELD IN JAPAN PRIOR TO THE OUTBREAK WORLD WAR II. OLYMPIC OFFICIALS AND ATHLETES FOR THE U.S. TEAM, HEADQUARTERED IN INNSBRUCK, AUSTRIA, EXPRESSED DISAPPOINTMENT BUT UNDERSTOOD WHY THE DECISION WAS MADE.

TAKE SOT -- WILLIAM SIMON/USOC PRESIDENT
IT'S A SAD DISAPPOINTMENT FOR MYSELF AND THE TEAM, BUT THE GROWING SITUATION BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND THE SOVIET UNION IN A COMMUNIST COUNTRY PUTS OUR ATHLETES AT RISK, AND THAT IS AN UNACCEPTABLE RISK

SCOTT HAMILTON -- U.S. OLYMPIC FIGURE SKATER
I'M HOLDING OUT HOPES THAT BOTH SIDES PULL BACK FROM THE BRINK AND WE CAN HOLD THESE GAMES. I REALLY BELIEVE THAT THIS IS SOMETHING WORLD NEEDS MORE THAN EVER.

LEY REPORTER TRACK
THE IOC DECISION HAS SOME EFFECT ON SPORTS IN EUROPE. THE INTERNATIONAL SKI FEDERATION ALSO SAID THE POST-OLYMPIC GRAND PRIX WOULD BE POSTPONED UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE MEETINGS. ESPN HAS LEARNED THE HEADS OF SOCCER FEDERATIONS IN GERMANY, ITALY, SPAIN, FRANCE AND THE UK WILL ALL MAKE ANNOUNCEMENTS ON CONTINUATION OF THEIR LEAGUE SEASONS THIS WEEK.

SOT FULL--ABC WORLD NEWS TONIGHT -- DECEMBER 29, 1983
U.S. FIGHTER PLANES WERE INVOLVED IN A SKIRMISH WITH CUBAN AIR FORCES OFF THE COAST OF FLORIDA TODAY..

SOT FULL -- CNN DECEMBER 29, 1983
MIAMI CIVIC OFFICIALS ARE CONCERNED ABOUT SECURITY SURROUNDING THE COMING ORANGE BOWL GAME

SOT FULL -- ORANGE BOWL COMMITTEE PRESIDENT -- DECEMBER 30, 1983
"There's been a lot of rumors flying since yesterday's incident. Let me be perfectly clear. The Orange Bowl Game will be played January 2, 1984.

LEY REPORTER TRACK
THAT HAS BEEN THE APPROACH OF SPORTS LEAGUES IN THE U.S. THUS FAR. CITING THE ORANGE BOWL PLAYING THEIR GAME JUST DAYS AFTER A DOGFIGHT BETWEEN U.S. AND CUBAN AIR FORCES, THAT DAMAGED A SOVIET MILITARY AIRCRAFT. BUT THE GAME DIDN'T COME WITHOUT THE TIGHTEST SECURITY FOR AN AMERICAN SPORTS EVENT, EVER, AND THE SUPER BOWL IN TAMPA LATER IN JANUARY FOLLOWED SUIT.

SOT FULL -- NBA ALL STAR GAME
"BIRD FOR THREE....GOT IT!!!! EAST BACK UP TOP!!!!

LEY REPORTER TRACK
BUT THE VIEW OF THE MAJOR LEAGUES STILL PLAYING IS WAIT AND SEE. INCOMING NBA COMMISSIONER DAVID STERN SAID HE WILL MAKE AN ANNOUNCEMENT SOMETIME NEXT WEEK, BUT FOR NOW GAMES WILL CONTINUE.

JULIUS ERVING -- PHILADELPHIA 76ERS
"NO QUESTION ABOUT IT, WE WANT TO KEEP PLAYING BALL. WE REALIZE THAT THE SITUATION IS A LITTLE STICKY RIGHT NOW, BUT I'M ASKING BOTH SIDES TO TAKE A STEP BACK AND REALIZE WHAT THEY ARE DOING. NOBODY WANTS A WAR"

KAREEM ABDUL-JABBAR WEST ALL-STAR
"I WAS TALKING TO BILL WALTON ABOUT THIS TODAY. IT'S UPSETTING THAT BECAUSE OF THE SABER-RATTLING. YOU HAVE OLYMPIC ATHLETES, WHO HAVE WORKED THEIR LIVES FOR THAT ONCE-IN-A-LIFETIME CHANCE, WHO MAY NOT GET IT BECAUSE OF POLITICIANS WHO HAVE FORGOTTEN THAT LIFE IS BIGGER THAN YOUR AMBITIONS."

BOB LEY IN THE STUDIO
I'VE BEEN IN CONTACT WITH THE HEADS OF THE MAJOR COLLEGE CONFERENCES AND THEY ARE ALSO TAKING A WAIT AND SEE APPROACH.

GREG: SOUNDS LIKE THERE IS A LOT TO DEBATE AND DISCUSS
BOB: EXACTLY, AND RIGHT NOW THE MAJOR CONFERENCES IN THE NCAA HAVE THE FEEL THEY DON'T NEED TO RUSH TO MAKE A DECISION. HOWEVER, IN CONVERSATION WITH A NUMBER OF COMMISSIONERS OF COLLEGE AND PRO LEAGUES I'VE BEEN ABLE TO CONTACT, THEY WILL BE MAKING DECISIONS IN CONSULTATION WITH THE FEDERAL AND STATE GOVERNMENTS IN THE COMING DAYS.
 
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I would like to say that it's going to be a little hard to write off my section of Armageddon because I just read one of the best installment ever. Thank you back, of course :D
 
Dunois, Thanks for a lot of learned views in regards to the scientific, societal, infrastructure and medical issues involved. Some of your view I agree with, some I don't, but you've given me a lot of things to look at and often reexamine in my own beliefs, thought and opinion. The ability to look at all sides a reexamine is the highest level of scholarship and thought in my mind.

Oh by the way, I can't wait to see what the Franco-British Union looks like in 1960s, 1970s and 1980s...and I want to see what a Franco-British General Election would look like. :)

Thanks for the Thanks Chip!

I am very aware that I can come across on the various Protect and Survive threads as someone who says "nuclear war is not as bad as it seems", "radiation is dangerous but it decays rather fast" and such.

As a scientist who wishes he had studied Nuclear Engineering instead of Chemistry at times. I am truly fascinated by nuclear energy and humbled by what nuclear power and cracking the atom can achieve so to speak. As a wannabee politician I firmly believe in deterence, but I have got be very honest with you on something, if worldwide nuclear disarmament could happen tomorrow I would support it wholeheartedly! Partly because nuclear weapons like chemical weapons and biological weapons are an "unfair" form of warfare and partly because I believe in building things and not in destroying them!

Nuclear weapons whether they are thermonuclear or not, are poor science and poor engineering anyways. Everyone can fashion a piece of wood into a spear to kill or maim someone with it, but only skilled craftsmens and artisans can fashion a piece of wood into a beautifully carved sculpture, into a pram, into a piece of furniture or into any other useful tool.
This is exactly the same with nuclear energy, it is powerful, it is dangerous, but it has potentialities which mankind should harness for its greater good, to build things and not to destroy them. What's so exciting about blowing up a piece of plutonium. When the same piece of plutonium could produce 1500C of heat, power a turbine directly to produce electricity or be harnessed to slipt water into its constituents molecules with the heat it produces and the help of the right chemical. The later option has its own challenges, but I find it far more fascinating than the former.

Radiation is something stange, which I believe in respecting and studying like any harmful chemical or any harmful substance. It can be dangerous, but so are many other things, which you can only use with the right protection. Once in the laboratory I ended up synthesising one of the first comabt gases used in World War One by accident, it is kind of like tear gas but in worse. My eyes did not like it, but I know now what to do and what to ensure to prevent this from reoccuring again. It is the same with radiation, there are risks involved and said risks should be respected, just like driving a car, drinking alcohol in large amounts or climbing a rockface.

Critical thinking and conflicting your views with other ones, is proper learning and proper research in my opinion. I am very glad that everyone does this on the Protect and Survive threads, we have much to learn from everyone in my opinion, not one of us can be an expert on everything but as a group we can certainly have an expertise on a lot of things.

To be fair with you Chip, writing about the post war parts of Sword of Freedom will likely be easier than writing the WW2 bits, though I ned to do a lot of research especially in economic topics. I do enjoy military history, but detailled orders of battle down the company level are not my thing. I much prefer to see things from a distance, though you often have to look a a lot of details as well while doing this.
There will be plenty of General Elections in due time, and at some point I will also have to include the unavoidable American Presidential Elections maps. Politics will be rather more civil in Sword of Freedom than OTL from the direction things are taking at the moment and on both sides of the Atlantic.
 
I appreciate being an asset. CAP may be obscure to some, but it can be a great help in an emergency if we're used...and part of that requires us to be called upon. If people know about us and what we do or did, that is definitely a good thing! (Though it's sad that I'm getting more CAP attention here than in the RL media...)
In addition, any time people focus on emergency preparedness and learn to understand it, it helps them know more about what to do if this had been an actual emergency. (I'm on an EBS kick thanks to the nationwide test...) I hope my links to other Emergency Management sources helped. (I wonder how the USDA is preparing to respond...Nebraska needs to feed itself...and help feed the country....)
Thank YOU for your excellent timeline. I am amazed at the detail you put into it from all sources...and all the perspectives you give.

May Chip and Jill make it through.
 
I wonder if Ogarkov would really stay in the same place after giving the launch order. He would have too know that the bunker was a priority target and his best bet would be to jump on an airplane and go mobile...

Ah well, with him dead the Soviet Union is going to fracture. Had the man survived, his position and reputation with the Soviet military would likely have ensured the greater majority of the (remaining) Soviet forces loyalty and permitted a quick crushing of any rebels. Now though, we are going to see a period of warlord-ism amongst the remaining Army and KGB commanders (the Party is no longer a factor, most of its powerbase came from the Soviets urban civilians and most of those are so much fallout dust now).
 
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Thanks, Chipperback.

Another thing to consider: players, and coaches, abandoning their pro teams, or college campuses, ahead of the impending exchange - especially as things get bad in Europe.

Pitchers and catchers would have been scheduled to report to camps in Florida and Arizona six days before the Exchange. That couldn't possibly have happened.
 
Thanks, Chipperback.

Another thing to consider: players, and coaches, abandoning their pro teams, or college campuses, ahead of the impending exchange - especially as things get bad in Europe.

Pitchers and catchers would have been scheduled to report to camps in Florida and Arizona six days before the Exchange. That couldn't possibly have happened.

A few might of, pending on what actions Major League Baseball took prior to the Exchange.
 
The World of Sport in 1984

Since the cancelation of the 1984 Winter Olympics, sporting governing bodies around the world began to makes plans in case the situation deteriorates further.

Monday January 30, 1984 -- The Football Association, after discussions with Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, representatives of the Ministry of Defence, and representatives of MI5 and MI6, came to a policy that the FA schedule would postponed in the event that 10 Downing Street initiates the full range of Emergency Powers. If Government is devolved to regional commissioners, all play will stop.

The German Bundesliga also followed the lead of the FA.

In response, the Union of European Football Associations announced that all European Cup and UEFA Cup matches will be postponed and rescheduled at this time, due to the high possibility of teams having to travel across the Iron Curtain.

Wednesday February 1, 1984 -- Incoming NBA Commissioner David Stern announced that the NBA schedule will continue day-to-day, after direct consultation with President Reagan.

Thursday February 2, 1984 -- The U.S. National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) made their policy public. They would leave regular season competitive decisions up to their member conferences. Winter season NCAA Championships will be contested as scheduled for the time being.

Friday February 3, 1984 -- National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing (NASCAR) President Bill France, in a press conference at Daytona International Speedway, Florida confirmed that the February 19th running of the Daytona 500 is still in. Like the NBA and the NHL, NASCAR will make decisions as situations warrant them. Most teams are already in Daytona preparing for Daytona Speedweeks, 1984.

So the game played on through the first weekend of February. But one day after Sarajevo '84 was supposed to have their Opening Ceremonies, the world of sport changed drastically.

The February 9th incident between Soviet Spetsnaz agents and West German GSG-9, and the February 10th bombings at Munich Airport, scuttled much of the European Sporting Calendar.

Saturday February 11, 1984 -- UEFA orders postponement for all European leagues. The "Big Four" leagues (FA First Division, Serie A, Primera, Bundesliga) called for the total continent-wide ban.

Federation Internationale du Automobile (FIA) announced that calendars for all championships, including Formula 1, World Rally Championship and World Endurance Championship will be "provisionally postponed". The Rally of Sweden, was started Friday February 10 will continue as scheduled.

Major League Baseball maintained their position that they will consult with the individual clubs. Most teams are preparing to open spring training camps on Wednesday February 15 in Florida and Arizona.

Sunday February 12, 1984 -- NASCAR racing began at Daytona with the exhibition 50-mile 20-lap Busch Clash. Neil Bonnett won the all-star event, composed of pole position and race winners from the previous season.

Swedes Stig Bloomquist and co-driver Bjorn Cederberg led an Audi Quattro sweep of the podium at the FIA Rally of Sweden. France's Michele Mouton with Italian co-driver Fabrizia Pons was second. Swede Per Eklund with British co-driver Dave Whitlock was third. There are rumors that Audi and Lancia rally vehicles have been seen on the roads of Western and Southern France in the weeks since the attack, doing reconnaissance of the roads to aid post-attack recovery efforts.

The American Big 8 collegiate athletic conference announced that all competition would be postponed after February 12th, in anticipation of order school closings in Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, and Colorado over the next 5 days.

Monday February 13, 1984 -- The states of Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, and Colorado order the closings of the schools, colleges, and universities, effective February 14th in Nebraska and Kansas, 15th in Oklahoma and 16th in Colorado. College conferences that have member schools in those states all voted to suspend competitive scheduled until further notice.

Tuesday February 14, 1984 -- Following the lead of the Big 8 Conference. The Big 10, and Pac 10, all voted to suspend play after games scheduled on Friday February 17, 1984

Wednesday 15, 1984 -- With the Soviet Union's announcement of an ultimatum to the NATO alliance. Major League Baseball ordered all teams to postpone spring training pending a resolution of the crisis. Commissioner Bowie Kuhn said the plans are in the works for a rescheduling of the season to play a full 162-game season, but there are also contingency plans for a 144-game slate or even a 120-game slate if necessary.

Thursday February 16, 1984 -- Twin 125-mile qualifying races at Daytona are run in front of the largest crowd in history of the qualifying races which rivaled a Daytona 500 race crowd. Prior to the races there was a massive anti-Soviet demonstration outside of the Speedway in protest to the Soviet ultimatum to NATO.

"Today by racing, were going to send them Russians a message that they can kiss our American asses." -- NASCAR team owner Junior Johnson.

Friday February 17, 1984 -- The National Basketball Association and the National Hockey League suspends all games scheduled from February 18 forward until further notice, due to the outbreak of War and the high possibility of a nuclear attack. The SEC and Big East conferences say they each hosting school decided to at least play their weekend slate of games and postpone the schedule from February 20th forward.

In a meeting Friday night, NASCAR's teams voted to postponed the Goody's 300 and the Daytona 500. Most of the Winston Cup teams stayed in Daytona and helped with Emergency Management Services. There are rumors that many of these groups of teams have survived the initial exchange and set up a refugee center in the Flagler Beach, Florida area.

February 19, 1984 The last known day of sports competition in the United States.

February 21, 1984 Global nuclear exchange between the forces of the United States of America and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics commence.
 
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Hey Dunois!

"As a wannabee politician I firmly believe in deterence, but I have got be very honest with you on something, if worldwide nuclear disarmament could happen tomorrow I would support it wholeheartedly!

I'm a wannabe CNDer who strongly believes in the concept of "peace through superior firepower" but I also believe that while one should never negotiate from fear, we should never fear to negotiate. To me that has always been a weakness of American foreign policy. The concept of constant fear that clouds prudent decision-making for the worst too often.

A lot of my views on nuclear energy are biased. I'll admit to that. They are clouded somewhat by the fears fostered during that period of this timeline and also by the reality of what nuclear energy industry has been in the United States. Skilled craftsmen and women who work in the plants and want to do the right thing and act in a responsible manner are too often undercut by the suits seeking the quick dollar. We have a culture within nuclear power in America unfortunately who would be willing to lose a Detroit, a Harrisburg, an Omaha, or Silkwood somebody who questions the corners cuts because of the profit margin.
What makes nuclear power work is common sense science, combined with education, combined with smart regulation (unlike a lot regulation in the U.S. which sweats a lot of meaningless details and glosses over what is really important). Give me those three things, and I'm all for the potential of the atom.

Please keep giving your input, I've learned a lot from you.

Now about Sword of Freedom
"Politics will be rather more civil in Sword of Freedom than OTL from the direction things are taking at the moment and on both sides of the Atlantic.

That would be quite an interesting cultural shift for the United States. A Franco-British sensibility as an equal in the world would effect not just American politics, but American culture as well. That raises an interested eyebrow.
 
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"I know that my home town got a nice second sunrise, but I know my wife`s town would probably be safe. I can`t imagine that Ft. Larned would not be a regroup point for the Kansas Guard. It may be old, but as it is in the middle of the state and is a National Historic sight with the State Hospital nearby.

Radio Nebraska and a number of ham operators are receiving signals from the Sunflower State. There are rumors that a prominent Kansas political figure is still alive...and possibly rebuilding an Emergency Government from Topeka. Both Universities are functional and receiving a lot of refugees. Nobody believes that given the reports that most of Congress and the Senate were in Washington when it happened.

Communications are disrupted in Kansas, but there is a ray of hope. A professor Joe Huxley at KU received a garbed transmission of an address that ended with the words, "Governor of Nebraska" in early March. The basketball coach at the University of Kansas made radio contact with a kid in Nebraska not too long ago, who claimed the Nebraska's elected Governor is still alive. The kid also says that Tom Osborne, Nebraska's football coach, is still alive. Coach doesn't believe it. He's said it was a 12-year-old kid who's probably making it up to cope with the shock.

The tough part is fallout. Both Kansas and Kansas State University's sit around Minuteman and Titan missile bases. Both are currently dealing with fallout levels similar to Nebraska's western third. :(

Someone asked about Nebraska's nuclear power stations.

OPPD Nuclear Power Station at Fort Calhoun (approximately 21 miles north of Downtown Omaha, 36 miles away north of Offutt AFB, 80 miles south of Sioux City, Iowa) -- Fort Calhoun received blast damage from the Omaha impact. Fallout Level -- HIGH RED, POSSIBLY BLACK.

NPPD Cooper Nuclear Power Station at Brownsville (approximately 45 miles southwest of Offutt AFB, 60 miles south of Downtown Omaha. Within a 80-mile radius of Missouri and Kansas-based Minuteman Silos...also 55 miles east of a stray nuclear detonation meant for Lincoln, Nebraska Municipal Airport) -- Cooper is undamaged, but surrounded by a heavy fallout area. Southeastern Nebraska is in a definite fallout zone that could be easily be YELLOW LEVEL...But Dr. Suhr seems to believe most of Southeastern Nebraska is RED or worse.
 
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Chip,

I knew what I was in for. I knew you could still add intensity to it. To me, too, it become physical.
And now I hope, you have reached the ceiling. But I am afraid we are in for worse things to come.

Can my palms get any more sweaty while reading? My pulse more racing? My hands more shaky?

Johnny Carson and Ed McMahon.

Please tell me, Johnny Carson came to Nebraska in his DeLorean.

Young volunteer: Wait a minute, John. Ah... Are you telling me that you came all the way from Los Angeles... in a DeLorean?

John: The way I see it, if you're gonna try to escape the apocalypse, why not do it with some style?

Ironically I didn't know much about nuclear attack until I was in 6th grade, after reading an old supplement from my English teacher's paper and seeing "The Mouse That Roared". By then, the Cold War was ending...

I was "briefed" in class....in, I am not sure exactly, 2nd or 1st grade, by lecturers coming from "outside". That was somewhen between '84 and '86.

I suspect that - depending upon how long the "recovery" period takes- there might develop an attitude of "we all did things to survive during the war and immediate post-war years that we're not proud of and that we just don't talk about".

That makes a lot of sense. It remind me a lot of the way my grandparents' generation dealt with a lot of aspects concerning WW2.

The LGV line will be less impacted by the strikes than the normal line which goes through via Dijon. I could therefore perhaps see it as becoming less and less of an high speed line but more a normal line.

Which makes it hardly a TGV. :eek: However, there will be no competition coming fron the ICE for.....ever.

In the long run, however, I was wondering. Would even a recovering Europe, but a definitely more sparsely populated one, go "back on track" in order to build up a high-speed-rail-system? Linking metropolitan areas not larger than maybe 500,000 people? Or would we rather see more emphasis on air travel, similar to most parts of the US and Australia?

France will have lost part of her soul.

This assessment of long-term cultural changes will become very interesting.

Science could get discredited or alternatively enhanced

Whatever the case, I am quite certain that those groups which do not turn away from science will just "trump" the others.

You can stay here in this s***hole forever Dad, I am fine with it. But I am going to move to the people who have color TV!

You would have to build a wall to keep the people from leaving... Wait, that sounds familiar.

Some people have said that one the effects of the Black Plague in Europe, was to raise wages and allow the conditions for the industrial revolutions down the line. Might we see something similar happening there but with robotics, forty or fifty years down the line (robots could also clean up black zones)?
This is fascinating stuff in a way I find!

I very much doubt this 400-year-context of Plague and IR, but the example is striking. Waaaaal-EEEEE?????

However, though not wishing to sound pessimistic, I am quite sure that the "black zones" will just remain no-go-areas until deemed safe... one day.

Apart from salvaging valuable equipment, a thorough "cleaning up", robots or not, will certainly surpass the ressources of any survivor-nation. And to be frank, as overpopulation won't be a problem for some time, developing the inhabitable regions further is simply a lot more effective than going back into these very expensive places.

Geographically-strategically important areas might be an exception to the rule. But planners will simply regard these areas like they would regard "lakes" or "swamps". If necessary, build a bridge (clear a path) across it, once it is doable, lay them dry (decontaminate). But I suggest that the natural decay of radioactivity will do more to clear areas than the numbers of robots a survivor-nation can produce.

Angry voter: Why should our factories build robots to clean places nobody wants to live in anyways? I need a new fridge!

Unless you get into the wonderful world of self-reproducing nano-robotics. And here you might have the next box of pandora... :D

One minor quibble...Reagan would NEVER have told Ogarkov to "go screw yourself". In that situation, with everything on the line, he wouldn't have said something to provoke Ogarkov. Wouldn't have happened.

I agree with you. But historical persons have "said" and "done" a lot of things they actually never did. People might actually later belief that anecdote and people like us would be smiled upon mildly. ;)

Heck a part of me if in Reagan's place would probably have caved in for the Iron Curtain on the Rhine. I don't usually say this, but red almost looks better than dead when the reality of what is about to happen hits home in your face.

From a German POV... certainly. Especially when the Ostalgics tell you how cosy the GDR actually was. :eek:

Unfortunately, I haven't read Christian v. Ditfurth's novel "Die Mauer steht am Rhein" (The Wall stands on the Rhine) which works with a scenario where the Soviet Union swaps Cuba against West-Germany after nuclearly blackmailing the West ca. 1989.

I am not fully convinced on that, but I suspect (contrary to the novel) that there might be the possibility that a united Communist Germany would just overstretch the Communist Bloc. With complete Germany within the Kremlin's sphere, there could soon be a combination of unruly European states (especially if further dominos fall, as Chipperback suggested) demanding an end to a mono-polar way of managing things.

The Kremlin might soon wish they hadn't swallowed that Trojan Pferd.

Not the certain way of events, but imaginable.

I am very aware that I can come across on the various Protect and Survive threads as someone who says "nuclear war is not as bad as it seems", "radiation is dangerous but it decays rather fast" and such.

Well...yes, but that is a good and necessary counterweight. I very much enjoy your posts because they broaden the horizons on this timeline.

I wonder if Ogarkov would really stay in the same place after giving the launch order. He would have too know that the bunker was a priority target and his best bet would be to jump on an airplane and go mobile...

Besides, did I read correctly that a B52 was assigned to that target? Why not ICBMs?
I am just curious.
 
"Besides, did I read correctly that a B52 was assigned to that target? Why not ICBMs?
I am just curious.

Originally, a sub launch going to take Ogarkov out at a bunker that was situated in area near the Russia-Baltic border...But Ogarkov demanded a move to a another bunker deeper in Russia at the last minute..American intelligence got the word very late in the game that Ogarkov got moved...due to communications problems they couldn't reach TACAMO to reach the sub to change the launch orders...But CINC-SAC had a backup plan..The forward deployed bombers in Iceland. The changed the orders...and Razorback 1-1 drew the straw. It was one of those quirks of war. Plan A gets thrown. You go to Plan B. 99 times out of a 100 such a change could be made seamlessly. This was that one time where it was SNAFU. Remember, war never goes the way you draw it up on the blackboard.
 
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