I have to reread and read more about the major players before I start a timeline but I wanted to solicit some advice and input specifically on how a successful Lancastrian regime in the 1470s would deal with the messy issue of rewarding followers and punishing dissidents. [Even more input including foreign relations and line of succession after Edward of Westminster, Prince of Wales and anything you think is important is optional but awesome.]
Lancastrian Victory - Planning Thread
- Thread starter HRH Cecily
- Start date
If the POD is something like Edward IV and Richard are killed at Barnet, you still have baby Edward, Prince of Wales to deal with.
Would he be more likely to be kept in the Tower or raised by someone loyal to the regime (like young Henry Tudor)? There's also Elizabeth, Mary, and Cecily.
That's an interesting idea since it makes it much harder for her brother to raise a rebellion against Westminster's son. She would be 4 years older than him at minimum though if he were born in 1471. Cecily might be better as closer in age or Margaret if she is posthumously born here and doesn't die as a baby. On the other hand, Edward is married to Anne Neville and they might not want to waste another chance at a foreign alliance by marrying within the country (although it would probably much like OTL Henry Tudor and Elizabeth of York effectively draw the Lancastrian and Yorkists back together).
I think the butterfly would be Margaret of York having a son ITTL with Charles of Burgundy.
Margaret of York having children of either gender would be fascinating. I don't mind Yorkist pretenders, in fact I think having them adds an element of realism, but in this scenario I'd want the Lancastrians to stay on the throne. Would Margaret's daughter be a better bride than Elizabeth or one of her sisters for Westminster's son? Ties the Yorkists to the Lancastrians and brings a foreign alliance and dowry. Maybe Elizabeth would marry her cousin, the future Duke of Burgundy?
I'm going to guess the Tower, but I'm not sure.
By the way, what will George of Clarence be getting out of the new regime?
Margaret, Duchess of Burgundy, was a Yorkist through and through. If she has a son, he is marrying one of her nieces, there's not a doubt in my mind about that. And she will be supporting her young nephew's claim to the throne. Look how strident she was in supporting Perkin Warbeck, and Edward of Westminster is her undisputed nephew, she's going to redouble her efforts if its for him. Of course, this assumes they get out of the Tower and out of the country, which is no guarantee.
If the POD is a Lancastrian Victory at Barnet, then yes, Edward of Lancaster and Anne Neville are going to be the next King and Queen. Indeed, I could see Edward being made Regent for his father, if Henry's health stays as bad as it was OTL. One possibility for a peace-making match, if the Yorkist children aren't smuggled abroad, would be OTL's Edward V to the eldest daughter of Edward of Lancaster and Anne Neville, as long as the age gap isn't completely unworkable.
What fascinates me would be how the Nevilles are viewed in this AU. Warwick would be a Kingmaker twice over and the father-in-law of the next in line, assuming he survives Barnet, so you'd expect him to be rewarded. At the same time, however, his other daughter is married to George of Clarence, the younger brother to the Yorkist Usurper, whose loyalties are only ever going to be in question. That in turn, may well reflect on Warwick...
If the POD is a Lancastrian Victory at Barnet, then yes, Edward of Lancaster and Anne Neville are going to be the next King and Queen. Indeed, I could see Edward being made Regent for his father, if Henry's health stays as bad as it was OTL. One possibility for a peace-making match, if the Yorkist children aren't smuggled abroad, would be OTL's Edward V to the eldest daughter of Edward of Lancaster and Anne Neville, as long as the age gap isn't completely unworkable.
What fascinates me would be how the Nevilles are viewed in this AU. Warwick would be a Kingmaker twice over and the father-in-law of the next in line, assuming he survives Barnet, so you'd expect him to be rewarded. At the same time, however, his other daughter is married to George of Clarence, the younger brother to the Yorkist Usurper, whose loyalties are only ever going to be in question. That in turn, may well reflect on Warwick...
I'd say raised by someone loyal. If nothing else, the Lancastrians cannot open themselves up to the charge of waging war on children. Henry VI's piety wouldn't allow it for one thing. Actually, Henry VI was incredibly generous and wanted little more than peace, AIUI, so foolish though it may be, I could see him allowing Elizabeth Woodville and her children to 'escape' to sanctuary with Margaret of York in Burgundy...
I wonder how much longer Henry VI would have lived if he hadn't met his end in the Tower in 1471?
This could be a case of putting the cart before the horse. But what of a slightly earlier POD @HRH Cecily. One where Edward of Westminster marries a foreign bride?
Or there's always this one. Let me know if you want me to rev up the thread.
Or there's always this one. Let me know if you want me to rev up the thread.
I checked it out. Definitely interesting, I'd subscribe. Feel free to rev it! For this scenario, I do want Edward of Lancaster/Westminster married to Anne Neville though.
Mm, yeah, makes sense re: Margaret. Edward V to the eldest daughter makes more sense than Elizabeth of York to the eldest son. I could see that.
Right? There's Isabel, sister to the Queen which normally would make her a very influential person but she's also married to a very close relative of the Yorkist Usurper and . George I could see doing something stupid and not lasting long under the Lancastrians.
Henry sure, Margaret and Edward absolutely not. Maybe Elizabeth Woodville and the girls escape but not Edward V.
As for Henry's health, honestly ¯\_(ツ)_/¯? His mental health was always an issue but he seems to have been in relatively good physical health.
Well, that was one of the things that synched it for Warwick. He insisted on being named "regent" for Edward of Westminster until his 18th birthday. Which, had he survived Tewkesbury, would've been coming up. So Warwick, I think, has got a very limited time to do anything. Nobody at the Lancastrian court trusted him IIRC, Marguerite d'Anjou least of all. I daresay that Marge would've probably "gotten rid" of Anne pretty soon had the readeption been successful. She had waited for the dispensation to allow them to marry, however, I think she was playing for time to try and wring what she could out of Warwick before discarding him. Warwick-Marguerite is an alliance born to fracture. And unfortunately, the Kingmaker's daughter will be collateral damage. Especially if she doesn't have an heir yet.
Actually Edward of Westminister can marry Mary of Burgundy if she has brothers, she is a useful bride, their eldest son can marry Catherine of Navarre to reclaim Gascony, if her brother still dies.
It's a good idea, just one problem. Only way that will happen is if Margaret of York doesn't become Mary's stepmother. Charles the Bold was a lukewarm ally to the Yorkists at best - he only helped them when the Lancastrian regime threatened his trade arrangements with England IIRC, before that he wasn't overly interested - so I could see him pushing for it (maybe), should the Readeption be successful or Maximilian of Austria be unavailable. But Margaret will probably allow it to happen over her cold. Dead. Corpse. And I'm pretty sure she would still be an issue even once she's dead.