La Guillotine Permanente: A French Revolutionary Timeline
- Thread starter Xekimus
- Start date
I think Louis Desaix should have his chance to shine. He was assigned to the Army of England to invade the UK until he was assigned to Egypt. Between 30.000 and 40.000 soldiers could do the trick. If they have the support of the population, they could pull it off.
I can see Paine being made Representative on Mission, mostly to get him out of their hair. As for the commander, why not Jean-Baptiste Kléber? He's been very successful in his careerso far, and his OTL career ended far too early
Catholic priests in Ireland would be been radicalised when training on the continent.
This was why the British funded a seminar for training catholic priests in Ireland in 1795 to reduce the influence of priests trained abroad.
en.wikipedia.org
This was why the British funded a seminar for training catholic priests in Ireland in 1795 to reduce the influence of priests trained abroad.
St Patrick's Pontifical University, Maynooth - Wikipedia
This man who was a mp in the Irish parliament in Dublin was a supporter of the Republican cause and wrote letters to Washington.
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
He even built a monument to George Washington in his garden. The only one built in Washington's lifetime.
www.americanheritage.com
There were images of Jefferson and the other leader of the American revolutionies in the plasterwork in the house.
My late uncle took me there to see it when he lived there in the 1990s
Edward Newenham - Wikipedia
Belcamp House - Wikipedia
The First Washington Monument Is Threatened | AMERICAN HERITAGE
Built in 1778 by a member of the British Parliament who admired George Washington, the vandalized monument stands on an old estate now in ruins.At the e..
My late uncle took me there to see it when he lived there in the 1990s
I do hope the Irish can successfully throw off the yoke of the British in this TL.
I have attempted to use MapChart create a map of France and her allies as of June 1795 Messidor Year III.
I have no idea how accurate (or not) this is however.
@Xekimus, please let me know if I have made any mistakes in the map.
I am loving the timeline by the way. Hopefully Robespierre can defeat the Breton counterrevolutionaries and spread the revolution to Ireland and Scotland.
I have no idea how accurate (or not) this is however.
@Xekimus, please let me know if I have made any mistakes in the map.
I am loving the timeline by the way. Hopefully Robespierre can defeat the Breton counterrevolutionaries and spread the revolution to Ireland and Scotland.
What Alba? from what we've seen last update, Savoy-Piedmont is still around and Genoa has been annexed by the Cispadanes.
By the way, Parma and Modena are part of the Cispadane Republic, not the Transpadane.
Tuscany apparently also has been taken, but @Xekimus has not made it clear which republic got it.
Thank you for your feedback.
Is this any better?
EDIT: On a slightly unrelated sidenote, will the French attempt to unify the Italian republics into one? I know that IOTL Napoleon kind of attempted this in the early 1800s, so it is not entirely out of the question for Robespierre to do likewise. That said, I can imagine that due to the contrast between the moderate Transpandanes and the radical Cispandanes (I think I got those the right way around), such a union may be somewhat harder to accomplish ITTL.
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Piedmont is sill neutral and not (yet) a part of the French sphere. Cispadane also annexed Genoa.
Both Filippo Buonarroti and Francesco Melzi d'Erli support Italian unification as does most of the French government, so Italian Unification is more likely to happen then not. The political differences between the two republics is still quite the obstacle, however.
View attachment 834775
OK, so I removed Piedmont from the map and gave Genoa to Cispadania. I think that should be good?
As an aside, I struggle to imagine that the Duchy of Savoy will survive that much longer, given that it is surrounded on all sides by France and her allies, and because TTL's France is considerably more radical and thus would likely be far less tolerant of a monarchical state on its southeastern border. As such, I would imagine that Savoy-Piedmont will either be annexed directly into France (given the region's cultural closeness to France, I can definitely see this being advocated by the more expansionist Jacobins), or alternatively, have a sister republic established their which then may or may not later be incorporated into a pro-French united Italy.
OK, so I removed Piedmont from the map and gave Genoa to Cispadania. I think that should be good?
The only reason that I included Alba on the original map was because I hadn't read the chapter on Italy carefully enough, and I just kind of assumed that, given that the French would have had to march through Piedmont to reach Padania, that they would have established a sister republic there on there way through. IOTL, the French Directory established a short-lived republic in the area called the Republic of Alba in around 1796, so I assumed that, given the more rapid French advance ITTL, that this would have occurred slightly earlier than it did IOTL.
As an aside, I struggle to imagine that the Duchy of Savoy will survive that much longer, given that it is surrounded on all sides by France and her allies, and because TTL's France is considerably more radical and thus would likely be far less tolerant of a monarchical state on its southeastern border. As such, I would imagine that Savoy-Piedmont will either be annexed directly into France (given the region's cultural closeness to France, I can definitely see this being advocated by the more expansionist Jacobins), or alternatively, have a sister republic established their which then may or may not later be incorporated into a pro-French united Italy.
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There appears to be a problem with the map I attatched to my previous message, so I have resent it.
A map of France and her allies as ofJune 1795 Messidor Year III.
A map of France and her allies as of
In all honesty, I don't see why the French would not just do what they did IOTL and have Lazare Hoche lead the expedition. ITTL he has already established himself as a highly capable general, even though he is not exactly on the best of terms with the likes of Saint-Just and other radical Jacobins (though if anything, Hoche's enemies may support having him lead the expedition if only to get him away from the Metropole). In terms of naval leadership, it also makes sense to go with OTL's choice of Monrard de Galles, given that he seems to have been a capable leader. Indeed, the failure of the expedition OTL can mostly be attributed to the rough winter of 1796-1797, which led to the French fleet being mostly destroyed in a storm. If ITTL, the expedition is instead launched at the end of 1795, a year earlier than OTL, this problem will likely be averted, especially if the expedition is launched in
With regard to numbers, IOTL the United Irishmen requested a smaller invasion force of around 15,000 men, arguing that they could potentially raise up to 250,000 volunteers on Ireland once the French had landed. However, I personally would advocate that a larger force of 20,000-25,000 men is sent, as Hoche had originally planned for IOTL, both to guarantee the success of the expedition and to allow the army to invade mainland Britain from Ireland.
In terms of targets for invasion in Britain, I see that you have already described plans for a larger-scale version of TTL's Invasion of Fishguard. As other diversions, you could also have invasions landing in Cornwall (this was proposed IOTL but called off due to concerns about soldiers' lack of discipline) and potentially near Liverpool (to take advantage of Northern radicalism) with the bulk of the Army of Ireland invading the Scottish Central Belt. If the Batavian Navy is in a better shape than OTL, you could also see invasions of Newcastle (again, briefly considered IOTL but dropped due to concerns that it would fail), Eastern Scotland (to better support any rebellion by the United Scotsmen) and, if the Nore mutiny still occurs but is more successful, potentially even near Southend.
What happens next is pure conjecture. An (admittedly very unrealistic) idea that I have toyed with in my head is that the dire economic situation that TTL's Britain will soon find itself in leads to the Whigs under Charles James Fox win the 1796 General Election. However, his attempts to seek peace with France causes George III to attempt to dismiss him in favour of a Tory government which will continue the war at all costs. This triggers violent riots and mutinies that spiral into a Second English Civil War, and the French stationed in Ireland and Scotland take advantage of the instability to invade deep into England. All going to plan, they are able to force whatever regime in in London to capitulate, effectively imposing a pro-French republican government at the point of a gun, or at the very least permanently knocking Britain out of the war.
Like I said, a very unrealistic scenario. That said, the economic crisis that would doubtless be unleashed by the fall of Ireland would likely cause the situation for the British to go very South very quickly. If Jefferson becomes the next US President, he may even take advantage of the instability to start an early War of 1812, which would likely be more successful than OTL as ITTL, the British would need to use their army far closer to home so would therefore be less able to reinforce their colony in Canada.
That said however, all of this depends on the French being able to hold Ireland once they have taken it (IMO if the French can land an army in Ireland while any revolt is still ongoing, they are essentially guaranteed to be able to take the island, especially if the United Irishmen can capture Dublin early on and thus prevent the British from reinforcing their troops in Ireland). One must bear in mind that the bulk of the population is deeply Catholic, and so the British may attempt to promote Catholic sectarianism in opposition to the anticlericalism of the French army Presbyterian leadership of the United Irishmen (Wolfe Tone was a Presbyterian). Additionally, I just hope that Buonarroti does not get too.... overenthusiastic, shall we say, during his war with the Papal States; if word of any major anti-Catholic atrocities makes its way to Ireland, it could be enough for Irish Catholics to rise up against the French.
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I mean, the United Irishmen' leadership may be Protestant, but they have a fair number of Catholic allies too, as seen here:
much of the leadership were what were called dissenters.
Only Anglicans were considered to be protestants in Ireland.
Live footage of Saint-Just sending d'Hédouville to Wales. (Colorized).
Also, what should the English regiments being pursued by James Dixon be called in the event that they, let's say, hypothetically, for the sake of argument, maybe, possibly rebel? Can't have the "Royal Manchester Volunteers" shouting death to the King is all im saying.
I'm open to suggestions.
Also, what should the English regiments being pursued by James Dixon be called in the event that they, let's say, hypothetically, for the sake of argument, maybe, possibly rebel? Can't have the "Royal Manchester Volunteers" shouting death to the King is all im saying.
I'm open to suggestions.
Nah, with Irish, French and dissident English help.
I'm thinking something like the "Albionic Legion", but I'm not sure it gets across its revolutionary ambitions.