Kohl in '76

Strauß finally preferred to be PRIMUS IN PROVINCIA in OTL, he might have gladly gone there as well, knowing the danger of having to pass the foreign secretary to (probably) Genscher after the probable loss of the absolute majority in the 1980 elections.

.

I also wouldn´t rule out, that Strauß would still go to Munich in 1978 (like IOTL) He would hate it to be just the second man behind Kohl.
 
But Strauss and Kohl had another problem: bribery

True - the Flick-scandal deserves being mentioned here, too. It hit the whole political establishment but the CDU/FDP was in power when the bomb blew... Its aftermath dragged on for years - but Kohl was glued to his chair.

The Union has a miraculous ability to just ignore any responsibility for such scandals as long as possible.
SPD politicians, on the other hand, they resign for everything. :p

you forgot this one: Oskar Lafontaine

While there are many options for 1980, I am quite certain that Johannes Rau would be candidate in '84 (instead of '87). Appearing quite successful and popular in Northrhine-Westphalia (where 1 out of 4 West Germans lived) he is the obvious choice.

If Kohl wins in '84, Lafontaine might have his chance in '88 (instead of '90).
 
True - the Flick-scandal deserves being mentioned here, too. It hit the whole political establishment but the CDU/FDP was in power when the bomb blew... Its aftermath dragged on for years - but Kohl was glued to his chair.

The Union has a miraculous ability to just ignore any responsibility for such scandals as long as possible.
SPD politicians, on the other hand, they resign for everything. :p



While there are many options for 1980, I am quite certain that Johannes Rau would be candidate in '84 (instead of '87). Appearing quite successful and popular in Northrhine-Westphalia (where 1 out of 4 West Germans lived) he is the obvious choice.

If Kohl wins in '84, Lafontaine might have his chance in '88 (instead of '90).

So I would say:

Vogel 1980
Rau 1984
Lafontaine 1988
Still makes the most sense
L
 
Propably we will see "rightwing" green. A SPD in the opposition and under the leadership of Willy Brandt, has a chance to keep the leftwing environmentalist and pacifist under their roof. But maybe more Nationalist and Neutralist will join the "green" conservatives, if the CDU/CSU is in power.

If the SPD becomes more leftist after their defeat in 76, which might happen, their left wing might not go to the Greens, and we really get a green movement that's more like the ÖDP (small German party, eco-conservatives). At the beginning, there were some of those in the Greens (Herbert Gruhl, Baldur Springmann), but later they left the party when it became more left-wing.

There would propably no NATO Double-Track Decision.
In the end it was a complicated sheme of Helmut Schmidt to:
1. Balance the soviet threat
2. but still keep dentente alive and
3. keep the pacifist wing of the SPD in check.
Only the first point worked right. The last too points were complet desasters and NATO was brought to the brink of collaps.

The NATO was on the brink of collapse? Really? Can I have some Sources?
 
The NATO was on the brink of collapse? Really? Can I have some Sources?

Maybe I went a bit far, but as result of the Double-track-decision the foreign-political consensus in West-Germany and the UK fell apart and the major left parties of this two countrys started took an very Anti-NATO-Position. I think if the SPD or Labour had won an election between 1983 and 1990 it could hav e mean the end of NATO.
 
a qoute from this TL by to Rudolf Augstein, chief editor, of political magazin "Der Spiegel".

Jetzt haben wir den NATO Doppelbeschluss:
Kohl bekommt die Diplomatische Initiative
Strauß bekommt die Nuklearwaffen Initiative

Translation:
now we have a NATO Double-Track Decision:
Kohl gets the diplomatic initiative
Strauss gets the nuclear initiative

Note on Rudolf Augstein
he and FJ Strauss were mortal enemies
Strauss resignation as minister of defence in 1962 to the Spiegel Scandal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiegel_scandal
also "Der Spiegel" uncovering Lockheed bribery scandal, the Flick Affair
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flick_Affair

and other various political grievances and misdeeds.

with Vice chancellor Franz Josef Strauss restart his vendeta against Rudolf Augstein ?
 
a qoute from this TL by to Rudolf Augstein, chief editor, of political magazin "Der Spiegel".



Translation:
now we have a NATO Double-Track Decision:
Kohl gets the diplomatic initiative
Strauss gets the nuclear initiative

Note on Rudolf Augstein
he and FJ Strauss were mortal enemies
Strauss resignation as minister of defence in 1962 to the Spiegel Scandal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiegel_scandal
also "Der Spiegel" uncovering Lockheed bribery scandal, the Flick Affair
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flick_Affair

and other various political grievances and misdeeds.

with Vice chancellor Franz Josef Strauss restart his vendeta against Rudolf Augstein ?

Till Strauß death, Augstein considered Kohl allways just as a tool of Strauß. If Strauß becomes foreign misnister in 76, Augstein will proclain the end of the world.
 
Till Strauß death, Augstein considered Kohl allways just as a tool of Strauß. If Strauß becomes foreign misnister in 76, Augstein will proclain the end of the world.

oh yes and Strauss considered Augstein as dangerours Communist
and used other words for him, i dear not to take in my mouth :rolleyes:

Strauss and SPD member Herbert Wehner was also like that.
they had hurling personal insults to each other in Bundestag
Kohl had same "Problem" with Wehner
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Wehner
 
oh yes
Herbert Wehner record is 78 official censures during ONE Session
i remeber one Bundestag Session live on TV
were Wehner and Strauss start hurling personal insults to eachother
it was about NATO Double-Track Decision

Wehner: You Fascist Censored
Strauss: You Communists Censored of a Stalinist Censored
the presiding officer: ORDER
Wehner & Strauss(simultan): BE QUIED
Wehner (to the presiding officer): With all due respect, you are a Censored
then Wehner & Strauss start hurling realy hard insults to eachother
the presiding officer (Roars): ORDER, ORDER, ORDER GODDAMM !!
in end the TV channel cut audio and put undertitel "Sound disorder true Technical problems"

that was the golden time of German democracy :D
 
oh yes
Herbert Wehner record is 78 official censures during ONE Session
i remeber one Bundestag Session live on TV
were Wehner and Strauss start hurling personal insults to eachother
it was about NATO Double-Track Decision

Wehner: You Fascist Censored
Strauss: You Communists Censored of a Stalinist Censored
the presiding officer: ORDER
Wehner & Strauss(simultan): BE QUIED
Wehner (to the presiding officer): With all due respect, you are a Censored
then Wehner & Strauss start hurling realy hard insults to eachother
the presiding officer (Roars): ORDER, ORDER, ORDER GODDAMM !!
in end the TV channel cut audio and put undertitel "Sound disorder true Technical problems"

that was the golden time of German democracy :D

But we will ITTL propably never hear Joschka Fischer say: "Excuse me, Mr. Speaker, you are an @$$hole!"
 
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