Knights Move Convoy Battle Occurs

Ok 27th April 1942 a convoyof 36 ships bound for Russia left Iceland ecororted by four cruisers and three destroyers. With a distant escort force of the Battleships USS Washington & HMS Duke Of York, along with the carrier HMS Victorious, two cruisers and fourteen destroyers.

In OTL the Kriegsmarine sent surface forces out to attack the convoy but they never made contact, the so called Operations Knights Move.

Now what would happen if they did make contact? What type of surface engagement would occur between the German and Anglo-American forces? I know it won't alter the wars eventual outcome, but it could lead to some interesting butterflies depending on who "wins".

The German plan called for two groups Force 1 with the battleship Tirpitz, the cruiser Admiral Hipper, four destroyers and two torpedo boats. Force 2 with the cruisers Lutzow and Admiral Scheer and five destroyers to intercept and sink the convoy.
 
My sense is, should the German and Allied battlegroups sight each other, the Germans will seek to dis-engage. With two enemy battleships present, there will be too much risk of losing Tirpitz otherwise.
 
My sense is, should the German and Allied battlegroups sight each other, the Germans will seek to dis-engage. With two enemy battleships present, there will be too much risk of losing Tirpitz otherwise.

Don't forget Victorious and her Torpedo bombers though. Even if the Germans turn and run they are going to be within Torpedo bomber range for hours even if the British don't turn and persue, which they would seeing as how Tirpitz kept so much of their forces tied up in case she sortied.

1) Tirpitz is spotted by Aerial Recce from Victorious, is slowed down by multiple torpedo bomber attacks. Battleships close and sink her.
2) Same except sunk by torpedo bombers.
3) Tirpitz spots battleships, turns and runs, slowed by torpedo bomber attacks and sunk by battleships
4) same as three except sunk by torpedo bombers.

The only way I could see her succeeding would be if Force 2 drew off the cover force, leaving the Convoy relatively open for attack, and even that depends on where Victorious is.
 
If the German's make contact with any heavy Surface forces, they immediately pull back, they're going after the convoy, not warships.

Remember that the Germans have cover from land-based aircraft, so they do have a good chance of knowing where everything is, and this somewhat negates the disadvantage of not having a carrier.
 
If the German's make contact with any heavy Surface forces, they immediately pull back, they're going after the convoy, not warships.

Remember that the Germans have cover from land-based aircraft, so they do have a good chance of knowing where everything is, and this somewhat negates the disadvantage of not having a carrier.

Unlikely. The weather north of Norway is poor at the best of times, diabolical at worst.... and air recoonaisance at that time was still not very dependable - remember, the LW dont have a/s radar. Much of the issue with Allied and German warships was actually finding anything.
The convoys were easier to spot, they were big, spread out, and the germans had a rough idea of where they would have to be. A covering force could be pretty much anywhere and was a much smaller target. Assuming the carriers fighters let anything spot them and live to tell the tale...
 
Don't forget Victorious and her Torpedo bombers though.

Nope, I didn't - but I figured that if we'd progressed to an actual surface action, she hadn't been a factor to date.

The initial appearance of Swordfish around Tirpitz - whether or not they inflicted damage - would likely be another decision point for Germans to conclude there was too much risk involved in the operation. They won't want a repeat of the Bismarck experience.
 
Germany woudl possibly send the surfacegroups innitially, but when gaining information about the real strength of the Allied forces escorting the Convoy, the fleet would return to the Fjords, leaving the onslaught to the U-Boote and Luftwaffe, who in 1942 were present in large numbers in Northern Norway.

In April 1942, German Searchplanes frequented these waters, knowing relatively precise what the Allies were doing there and in what strength. Only in the wintermonths this airsearch was less effective, due to the permanent darkness, but in April, it was clear for 24 hours a day. U-Boote also patrolled these waters in numbers and radioed their recon too. Not much hope for any Allied force to reach the Arctic undetected.

The German surfaceforces might try to reach the convoy, before the Allied escortforce could show up, but when calculating this was not longer possible, it would return to its ports. Airfroces of the Fliegerkrops in Norway in 1942 were specialised in antishipping operations, rather than their comrades in other units of the Luftwaffe, so teh convoy was up to a nasty ride to Russia, facing constant attacks from the air and likely U-Boote too. It only had a chance to reach Murmansk or Archanelsk when sticking together, so no repead of PQ-17 would occure.
 
There seems to be some confusion about the facts.

Operation Sportspalast occurred in March of 1942 while Rösselsprung (Knight's Move) occur later that year, in late June/early July.

The destruction of much of PQ17 occurred as a result of Rösselsprung. Royal Navy chose to order the ships of the convoy to scatter, resulting in many of the merchant ships being sunk by aircraft and submarines.

Ok 27th April 1942 a convoyof 36 ships bound for Russia left Iceland ecororted by four cruisers and three destroyers. With a distant escort force of the Battleships USS Washington & HMS Duke Of York, along with the carrier HMS Victorious, two cruisers and fourteen destroyers.

In OTL the Kriegsmarine sent surface forces out to attack the convoy but they never made contact, the so called Operations Knights Move.

Now what would happen if they did make contact? What type of surface engagement would occur between the German and Anglo-American forces? I know it won't alter the wars eventual outcome, but it could lead to some interesting butterflies depending on who "wins".

The German plan called for two groups Force 1 with the battleship Tirpitz, the cruiser Admiral Hipper, four destroyers and two torpedo boats. Force 2 with the cruisers Lutzow and Admiral Scheer and five destroyers to intercept and sink the convoy.

Germany woudl possibly send the surfacegroups innitially, but when gaining information about the real strength of the Allied forces escorting the Convoy, the fleet would return to the Fjords, leaving the onslaught to the U-Boote and Luftwaffe, who in 1942 were present in large numbers in Northern Norway.

In April 1942, German Searchplanes frequented these waters, knowing relatively precise what the Allies were doing there and in what strength. Only in the wintermonths this airsearch was less effective, due to the permanent darkness, but in April, it was clear for 24 hours a day. U-Boote also patrolled these waters in numbers and radioed their recon too. Not much hope for any Allied force to reach the Arctic undetected.

The German surfaceforces might try to reach the convoy, before the Allied escortforce could show up, but when calculating this was not longer possible, it would return to its ports. Airfroces of the Fliegerkrops in Norway in 1942 were specialised in antishipping operations, rather than their comrades in other units of the Luftwaffe, so teh convoy was up to a nasty ride to Russia, facing constant attacks from the air and likely U-Boote too. It only had a chance to reach Murmansk or Archanelsk when sticking together, so no repead of PQ-17 would occure.
 
There seems to be some confusion about the facts.

Operation Sportspalast occurred in March of 1942 while Rösselsprung (Knight's Move) occur later that year, in late June/early July.

The destruction of much of PQ17 occurred as a result of Rösselsprung. Royal Navy chose to order the ships of the convoy to scatter, resulting in many of the merchant ships being sunk by aircraft and submarines.

Thanks for the clear up, wont be using that reference book again.....
 
Top