KMT win in 1949

What if KMT keep the Mainland China in 1949, and the PRC didn't establish? I think the Chinese culture would keep, Cultural Revolution would not happened. The art would continue. USA would regard China as an outpost to fight with Soviet Union. The Outer Mongolia would not indenpendence and the Vladivostok would returned; as those were important frontier to against the Communist. But the Tibet might left, because of India want buffer. And the western power like Tibet and didn't want China too strong.
 
It was too late by that stage. Chiang had all but destroyed his goodwill with the Chinese people, the KMT was horrendously corrupt and incompetent, among other problems.
 

abc123

Banned
What if KMT keep the Mainland China in 1949, and the PRC didn't establish? I think the Chinese culture would keep, Cultural Revolution would not happened. The art would continue. USA would regard China as an outpost to fight with Soviet Union. The Outer Mongolia would not indenpendence and the Vladivostok would returned; as those were important frontier to against the Communist. But the Tibet might left, because of India want buffer. And the western power like Tibet and didn't want China too strong.

Mongolia was allready independent, propped by USSR. And USSR was far too strong for China.
Also, Tibet would be part of China anyway.
Vladivostok would not be returned to China because Soviets wouldn't allow that.
 
Would having Sun Yat Sen live longer make any difference? If he could ensure a proper successor or at least establish a more dedicated cadre devoted toward his vision of China.
 
Mongolia was allready independent, propped by USSR. And USSR was far too strong for China.
Also, Tibet would be part of China anyway.
Vladivostok would not be returned to China because Soviets wouldn't allow that.
With USA, Mongolia may return.

More, USSR proposed to return the Vlad to ROC in 1995.
 

Zeldar155

Banned
With USA, Mongolia may return.

More, USSR proposed to return the Vlad to ROC in 1995.

Mongolia is puppet state of the Soviet Union, serving Soviet interests in the region. Mongolia wouldn't return until post-cold war at best.

The USSR didn't exist in 1995, and what source is that from?
 
If you're going to have them (somehow) pull that off, 1949 is rather too late for that. It's like trying to give the CSA a Civil War victory with an 1865 POD or having Japan win WWII with a 1945 POD.
 

anamarvelo

Banned
they dont have support of the people

even if they had beat the PRC they would only have the support of about 5 percent of the population
mao had support of 90 percent of the population
so if they beat Mao PRC they eould evently go to a communist sytem wither throught a blody revoltion or a plebasite
 
I think a POD in the 20's with KMT not breaking with the communists but somehow co-opting elements of them would be plausible but then the resulting regime might look a bit more like PRC anyway
 
What if KMT keep the Mainland China in 1949, and the PRC didn't establish? I think the Chinese culture would keep, Cultural Revolution would not happened. The art would continue. USA would regard China as an outpost to fight with Soviet Union. The Outer Mongolia would not indenpendence and the Vladivostok would returned; as those were important frontier to against the Communist. But the Tibet might left, because of India want buffer. And the western power like Tibet and didn't want China too strong.

Somehow, I just don't see that quite happening. I can, however, see the possibility of two Chinas developing; one Communist and the other capitalist and or right-wing. Where Taiwan would fit in all this, though, depends on one's perspective.
 
As well as not having the war begin in the first place, you could have it go much better for the KMT in the early years with Mao possibly being killed during the Autumn Harvest uprising or the Fifth Encirclement Campaign. However, as said earlier, Chiang led a spectacularly corrupt and incompetent regime and unless he took action to address the greiveances of ordinary Chinese another armed rebellion could well have happened later.
 
The last POD for Kuomintang to win civil war is during Huaihai campaign (November 1948-January 1949). Put smn competeng in charge of KMT troops in the area and the end result may be 180 degrees different.
 
As well as not having the war begin in the first place, you could have it go much better for the KMT in the early years with Mao possibly being killed during the Autumn Harvest uprising or the Fifth Encirclement Campaign. However, as said earlier, Chiang led a spectacularly corrupt and incompetent regime and unless he took action to address the greiveances of ordinary Chinese another armed rebellion could well have happened later.

Chiang was himself aware of the corruption in his regime and planned to crack down on it after defeating the Commies. But delaying action only fueled the Commies, which contributed to his downfall. When he retreated to Taiwan, the first thing he did was to centralize the military payment system. The absolute last PoD is a KMT victory at Huaihai, which would have resulted in a north-south split of China. An earliest and easier PoD is if Chiang didn't crack down on the Commies in Shanghai in 1927 and reconciled with Wang's Wuhan Government.
 
Would having Sun Yat Sen live longer make any difference? If he could ensure a proper successor or at least establish a more dedicated cadre devoted toward his vision of China.
Sun was in favor of CPC-KMT cooperation, and was trying his best to absorb Communists into his own KMT so as to strengthen his Nationalist army to carry out the Northern Expedition. He himself may perhaps be blessed by thr Communist International after some time:p The Communist Party did not even have to exist at all!

And Given his past records, Sun would alternatively be the first to collaborate with Japan, before Wang Jingwei and anybody else. He may simply sell out the Northeast in exchange of peace. If Tsuyoshi Inukai still becomes Prime Minister of Japan and was not assassinated, we may not even see a Sino-Japanese war since Sun would be willing to sell out national interests for the sake of his so-called ideals. Also, Sun and Inukai were really good friends in OTL.

I would still tend to think that the latest most likely POD for a KMT victory would be no Xi'an Incident, assuming that the Sino-Japanese War goes similarly. Nationalist forces had almost won the civil war by then. Had Chang Hsueh-iang, the worst traitor not staged the coup, Chiang would have won by March or April 1937. However, you still have the Northeast Anti-Japanese United Army in Manchuria. It was in name under CPC control, but was indeed directly receiving orders from Moscow. After the war, you see a Communist Manchuria and Nationalist elsewhere in China. It's likely that the KMT would win, but a permanent split would remain possible, as far as Red Manchuria would be receiving the weapons of the surrendered Japanese.

If you put the POD after 1944, I would say the KMT could at best get the Southern half of China, unless Chiang did not sack Sun Li-Jen in 1947, or that Dai Li somehow survived. Nevertheless, it's 200% ASB for China to regain Vladivostok. Why would the Soviet Union returns it to China, when it has been under Russian control for that long? The United States would never be able to ask the Soviet Union to gift it's territories away. That's just ridiculous. Chiang would after all invade Tibet, and he did have such plans. As for Mongolia, Chiang did recognize it after 1945 in OTL, though he would claim Mongolia once he fled mainland China to Taiwan:p I honestly don't see how you could get Mongolia back. Even if a referendum is held there, I don't find it likely that Mongolia will come back.
 
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