Klein-Veneding Sucess?

Seems hard, the germans had no resistence to the tropical diseases and yet they keep trying to explore the interior to search "El Dorado" (the would point of the venture, that's a big problem) also the way the spanish crown cheated them on the concession and how they treated them (it's also relevant that the "spanish" king that sold them the colonization rights was actually the german emperor and well know for neglecting spanish interests in favor of his own stuff in the HRE) probably means that they didn't plan to respect the concession at all from the start and it was only a ploy for Charles to get rid of his debts. This was basically the "get rich fast" scheme of a family of bankers from a small city-state from Bavaria, operating with permission of the spanish crown. Without an state backing up the operation there was no way for the colony to succeed. The only option I see it's to change it's circunstances so it's a real german colony (by that I mean belonging to a german state that would protect the territory from other colonizers and keep promoting the german lenguage). Maybe, If the English get region in a war against Spain (with a King like Charles, winning in Europe is more then enough, he would gladly give up really profitebly plantation regions of the spanish crown in favor of 4 meters of cold mouintains of his own demesne in HRE), AND they are under a personal union with a german state with coast in the north sea (like Hannover) AND the german king has any authority (posible if early enough) to make it part of his german dominions rather then the english crown then once something like the english revolution comes in (or just simple the states get separated through normal means, like death of the ruler of the union) and king gets ousted he keeps his german realm with his now german colonies. If he keeps a good alliance with England or a good enough navy in the region of interest (Portugal did both and did well, so better be shure) they can stop the spanish from gaining it back.
 

trurle

Banned
Seems hard, the germans had no resistence to the tropical diseases and yet they keep trying to explore the interior to search "El Dorado" (the would point of the venture, that's a big problem) also the way the spanish crown cheated them on the concession and how they treated them (it's also relevant that the "spanish" king that sold them the colonization rights was actually the german emperor and well know for neglecting spanish interests in favor of his own stuff in the HRE) probably means that they didn't plan to respect the concession at all from the start and it was only a ploy for Charles to get rid of his debts. This was basically the "get rich fast" scheme of a family of bankers from a small city-state from Bavaria, operating with permission of the spanish crown. Without an state backing up the operation there was no way for the colony to succeed. The only option I see it's to change it's circunstances so it's a real german colony (by that I mean belonging to a german state that would protect the territory from other colonizers and keep promoting the german lenguage). Maybe, If the English get region in a war against Spain (with a King like Charles, winning in Europe is more then enough, he would gladly give up really profitebly plantation regions of the spanish crown in favor of 4 meters of cold mouintains of his own demesne in HRE), AND they are under a personal union with a german state with coast in the north sea (like Hannover) AND the german king has any authority (posible if early enough) to make it part of his german dominions rather then the english crown then once something like the english revolution comes in (or just simple the states get separated through normal means, like death of the ruler of the union) and king gets ousted he keeps his german realm with his now german colonies. If he keeps a good alliance with England or a good enough navy in the region of interest (Portugal did both and did well, so better be shure) they can stop the spanish from gaining it back.
The biggest problem is what Germany did not exist at time, therefore you can make German-speaking colony, but not colony belonging to "German state". Prussia was formed just 3 years before 1528, and was a minor state far from Augsburg. The expedition was formally aligned with Holy Roman Empire - which was a diffuse multi-national conglomerate united by religion which was in the most troublesome period of Reformation (and IOTL eventually foundered due sectarian conflict).
 
I think it would develop similarly as OTL Venezuela but with some minor changes, for example the language, but it would still be spanish territory leased to private individuals, maybe it would be more prosperous as it would be managed like a private company instead of the model spain used to develop her colonies... If it is successful enough maybe spain would be tempted to repeat the same model in less prosperous/profitable colonies, underdeveloped and unorganized territories and even maybe claimed territories (i don't know, maybe leasing chile captaincy to another family, most of northern new spain could (at their own risk).
 
Well, it'd need to be controlled by a more substantial power than a banking family.

A TL where Charles V somehow doesn't inherit Spain but still gets Burgundy and Austria could potentially yield a Holy Roman Colonial effort. The HRE had a really great set of ports at its disposal (Hamburg, Bremen, Rostock, Trieste, pretty much everywhere in the the Low Countries...), as well as established trade networks which required fleets of ships capable of negotiating the rough waters of Europe's Atlantic coastline. Now imagine a network of Free Imperial Cities strategically placed up and down North America's Atlantic seaboard... N I C E !
 
The biggest problem is what Germany did not exist at time, therefore you can make German-speaking colony, but not colony belonging to "German state". Prussia was formed just 3 years before 1528, and was a minor state far from Augsburg. The expedition was formally aligned with Holy Roman Empire - which was a diffuse multi-national conglomerate united by religion which was in the most troublesome period of Reformation (and IOTL eventually foundered due sectarian conflict).
Of course, I mean a german state, one among the many that existed in the HRE, I just defined it as german speaking and put Hannover as an example. It had the baking of one Emperor that needed cash, and once he had it he had no reason to uphold his agreement. They would need something more long term, like an Austria that actually controls the land between Austria proper and belgium so they could have actual control of the region, and therefore the posible colonies that would be connected to the ports of belgium.
 
I think it would develop similarly as OTL Venezuela but with some minor changes, for example the language, but it would still be spanish territory leased to private individuals, maybe it would be more prosperous as it would be managed like a private company instead of the model spain used to develop her colonies... If it is successful enough maybe spain would be tempted to repeat the same model in less prosperous/profitable colonies, underdeveloped and unorganized territories and even maybe claimed territories (i don't know, maybe leasing chile captaincy to another family, most of northern new spain could (at their own risk).
Leopold II wasnt a better manager of the Congo then the belgian state. And the East Indies Company bankrupted itself by doing something so costly as actually ruling a country.
 
Leopold II wasnt a better manager of the Congo then the belgian state. And the East Indies Company bankrupted itself by doing something so costly as actually ruling a country.
Yeah but there were not any law in africa protecting africans from being mistreated like they were under leopold rule, in the americas there is at least that laws that protected the natives although it wasn't enforced as much as one could desire; but that could prevent anyone from going brutal with the natives specially under spain's supervision... they could be real brutal towards african slaves (and i don't doubt they would) but when i talk about of being treated like a private company is from profitting from it, not a fair treatment of the people inside that territory and of course they could go bankrupt specially if they keep that useless focus on finding el dorado (ughhh)
 
Of course, I mean a german state, one among the many that existed in the HRE, I just defined it as german speaking and put Hannover as an example. It had the baking of one Emperor that needed cash, and once he had it he had no reason to uphold his agreement. They would need something more long term, like an Austria that actually controls the land between Austria proper and belgium so they could have actual control of the region, and therefore the posible colonies that would be connected to the ports of belgium.
Austria is probably not the best bet. They have their hands full in the HRE, ahve to fight France every couple of years, try to dominate Italy and also fight the Ottomans. I think some North Sea-based Hanse state could be better, like Hamburg. Kurland was very ill-suited for the whole enterprise. Hannover could also work, but they are also often caught up in continental shenanigans.

Venezuela is also not ideal for German colonization (even under Spanish supervision). Argentina could be better, albeit less profitable, but on the other hand, I could see the Spanish crown supporting it to an extent. Maybe as a place for Protestants? Set up Buenos Aires ("Gute Winde"?) as a German trading port sponsored by Spain and see if they can turn a profit/convince enough people to move there. There is plenty of land to go around after all.
 
Honestly it’s not hard for Venezuela to be a success, you simply need to transfer the overlordship from Castile to the Charles to the HRE . Make the Welser insist on this as part of the early deal, as this would allow them to bring conflicts over the ownership and Welser behavior to the Imperial Diet instead of the Spanish king and estates. As such when Ferdinand becomes emperor, Kleinvenedig end up in a kind of legal limbo, which would protect it from Spanish takeover. The Spanish then leave it alone for the Welser to run as they see fit.
 
Austria is probably not the best bet. They have their hands full in the HRE, ahve to fight France every couple of years, try to dominate Italy and also fight the Ottomans. I think some North Sea-based Hanse state could be better, like Hamburg. Kurland was very ill-suited for the whole enterprise. Hannover could also work, but they are also often caught up in continental shenanigans.

Venezuela is also not ideal for German colonization (even under Spanish supervision). Argentina could be better, albeit less profitable, but on the other hand, I could see the Spanish crown supporting it to an extent. Maybe as a place for Protestants? Set up Buenos Aires ("Gute Winde"?) as a German trading port sponsored by Spain and see if they can turn a profit/convince enough people to move there. There is plenty of land to go around after all.
German colonization can be just as successful as spanish one as long as it has the same focus on cashcrops and african slavery. Even if there is tropival disease, as long as the german slave owners are not doing any work or exploring the rainforest for fantasy cities they should be fine.
 
Honestly it’s not hard for Venezuela to be a success, you simply need to transfer the overlordship from Castile to the Charles to the HRE . Make the Welser insist on this as part of the early deal, as this would allow them to bring conflicts over the ownership and Welser behavior to the Imperial Diet instead of the Spanish king and estates. As such when Ferdinand becomes emperor, Kleinvenedig end up in a kind of legal limbo, which would protect it from Spanish takeover. The Spanish then leave it alone for the Welser to run as they see fit.
I'm not sure about Spanish leaving Kleinvenedig alone, but that's possible.
 
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