Kirov assassination plot fails-Stalin exposed behind attempt

Yagoda misses (Kirov), Beria hits (Katyn, Manhattan Project, list goes on).

Simple enough analogy by my reckoning.

And Yezhov gets himself and everyone else killed when his munitions stores explode.

Indeed, I think Wolfpaw's point earlier about Stalin hardly being the only person who stood to profit by the elimination of a rising star in the Communist Party (namely anyone else who had ambitions for the top spot that wasn't named Kirov) is a pretty effective way to demolish the argument that Stalin was just unquestionably behind the Kirov assassination. Really it relies upon a rather fallacious notion that Stalin was the only member of the Communist Party who wasn't completely willing to rub out a troublesome opponent for the sake of political advancement, none of these were particularly nice people, least of all the inner circle and intelligentsia.

And that Stalin even needed to assassinate his rials. If Stalin really wanted Kirov gone then a confession could easily have been obtained. Assassinations are chaotic and breed confusion and suspicion, but an orderly arrest, trial, and execution would be controlled every step of the way by Stalin.
 
Exactly. Stalin used Kirov's death to help in preparation for his main purge, but was clearly only reacting to events.

It isn't altogether THAT clear. I am not as sure as you he couldn't fake it. To a large extent he clawed his way to the top with obfuscating stupidity. He LIKED being underestimated. I am not insisting that he did have anything to do with it but I don't see it as a big longshot. I give it maybe 1:3 or 1:4.
 
Indeed, I think Wolfpaw's point earlier about Stalin hardly being the only person who stood to profit by the elimination of a rising star in the Communist Party (namely anyone else who had ambitions for the top spot that wasn't named Kirov) is a pretty effective way to demolish the argument that Stalin was just unquestionably behind the Kirov assassination. Really it relies upon a rather fallacious notion that Stalin was the only member of the Communist Party who wasn't completely willing to rub out a troublesome opponent for the sake of political advancement, none of these were particularly nice people, least of all the inner circle and intelligentsia.

True, there were a number of other people on the list. I am just saying it isn't that unlikely. Hardly enough to make this implausible.
 
It isn't altogether THAT clear. I am not as sure as you he couldn't fake it. To a large extent he clawed his way to the top with obfuscating stupidity. He LIKED being underestimated. I am not insisting that he did have anything to do with it but I don't see it as a big long shot. I give it maybe 1:3 or 1:4.

Not even close. Stalin was always seen as very intelligent and an effective manager. For two decades he at one time or another headed almost every facet of the Bolshevik Party and later the Soviet government, from military to diplomatic. This was primarily because Lenin and others respected his skill and dedication; he was willing to work long hours on extremely strenuous tasks but never shirked or backed down. But he was never considered a major political player because he sided with a losing side or argument and conflicted with Lenin too many times. But he was important enough that most tried to get him on their side.
 
Not even close. Stalin was always seen as very intelligent and an effective manager. For two decades he at one time or another headed almost every facet of the Bolshevik Party and later the Soviet government, from military to diplomatic. This was primarily because Lenin and others respected his skill and dedication; he was willing to work long hours on extremely strenuous tasks but never shirked or backed down. But he was never considered a major political player because he sided with a losing side or argument and conflicted with Lenin too many times. But he was important enough that most tried to get him on their side.

What I mean is that he wasn't seen as the brilliant schemer he was. He wasn't a fiery orator or an intellectual who argued incessantly on Marxist theory but someone willing to do the paper work. Until too late many of his rivals saw him as little more than a talented clerk. I think he liked it like that.
 
Eh, Sergei Kirov was probably assassinated by Yagoda in a misguided attempt to kiss up to Stalin after this particular election. Kirov was a hardcore Stalinist so he would never have directly challenged Stalin. I could, however, see the NKVD trying to kiss up to the premier and expand their power and decide bumping off a potential rival would work. They probably didn't realize the degree to which the Purge-Cycles tore through the NKVD (which was twice emptied out and its leader purged in that time).
 
I have some that say the opposite. Is there anything in Stalin's history that makes it absurd? We are talking about someone who had millions murdered, to have a political rival murdered is just another day's work for Stalin.:mad:

Yes, namely that it was an open, public assassination. That's the Hitler MO, the Stalinists shot people behind closed doors and nobody asked what happened to the people who Just Disappeared. For example when it came to the people actually killed during the Purges without show trials they were shot and buried in secret. Stalin was too cautious and too secretive to have done this kind of stunt once, and if he did it once there's a good question why it never happened again.
 
Wait. We have people doubting that it was Stalin who ordered Kirov's death? ROFLSTALIN

Primarily because it's the only time in the entire history of Stalinism where he ordered this kind of visible, public atrocity. Stalin was much smarter than Hitler when it came to monstrous evil dictatorship stuff, he simply killed his opponents and would sometimes after ordering some of them bumped off have the ones that bumped them off tried for executing them on cold-blooded trumped up charges. *That* is the Stalin style of executing people. Having some lunatic with a grudge shoot a proper Party official in a society with a memory of political murder as a tradition? That can of worms would never have been deliberately opened by Stalin, who given his understanding of Russian history understood full well the degree to which the old Tsarist state had depended on government-by-assassination.
 
Primarily because it's the only time in the entire history of Stalinism where he ordered this kind of visible, public atrocity. Stalin was much smarter than Hitler when it came to monstrous evil dictatorship stuff, he simply killed his opponents and would sometimes after ordering some of them bumped off have the ones that bumped them off tried for executing them on cold-blooded trumped up charges. *That* is the Stalin style of executing people. Having some lunatic with a grudge shoot a proper Party official in a society with a memory of political murder as a tradition? That can of worms would never have been deliberately opened by Stalin, who given his understanding of Russian history understood full well the degree to which the old Tsarist state had depended on government-by-assassination.

As you said, people had two paths once they had their names written off by Stalin. Either they were important enough to get a public show trial and execution or they were taken during the night, tortured until they confessed, given a 5 minute trial, and executed without anyone knowing their fate. The Soviet Union was all about the "legal process" and "justice" in its public affairs, so its purges were just another bureaucratic procedure. Prisoners had to confess under torture or even the threat of it before they were sentenced. Rokossovsky was partly saved by his ability to resist torture and refuse to confess, though Timoshenko played a role as well.
 
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