Kingmaker, a Godwinson timeline

Well, I already have Harold being a power behind the scenes, so I don't want two of them running around.

I really just want Odo to want to establish his own rule in wake of the frustrating defeat in England. Hmm... Are there records around that time of Bishops giving up their clerical duties to become secular leaders?

And besides, Odo was a warrior priest, and not a very good priest at that. I'd think that he would want to more fully establish his power, beyond being a "mere" bishop.

Aha! Perhaps he could make a deal with the Duke of Brittany, Hoel of Cornwall? After all, the Bretons claimed land in Normandy, didn't they?

Aye, i suppose 2 in one TL in teh first bit might be a bit to much :D

I could believe he'd want to but still not sure i see it, either way looks good for the future if Robert can get away - nice potential civil war :D
 

Zioneer

Banned
May-August 1066: In May, the feuding Norman factions clash at Bayeux and Maine. Odo's forces are slightly outnumbered at first, and he is defeated near Maine, and forced to flee to Bayeux. However, he enlists the aid of two powerful Norman nobles: Roger de Montgomerie, and Ralph de Gael. The two act as Odo's captains, and together, the three begin to push back the forces serving in the name of Robert Curthose.

Meanwhile, Lanfranc, abbot of St. Stephen's, (Archbishop of Canterbury in OTL) and the teacher of William, son of the late Duke William, flees to Apulia with young William II. He believes that the power of Odo mixed with Ralph and Roger is too strong to fight against, but this way, justifies his flight by his loyalty to the family of the old Duke. He believes that Robert Guiscard will protect his fellow Normans. Hundreds of Normans flee with him.

On the 3rd of June, Odo meets Robert Curthose's supporters in battle. However, the loyalists have a new advantage, Breton mercenaries. Robert had negotiated previous with Duke Hoel of Brittany, convincing the Breton to aid him in exchange for a few pieces of contested land. Robert's new soldiers manage to break a third of Odo's army, and they slay Roger de Montgomerie. However, the Bretons are not enough to defeat Odo, who drives Robert's soldiers from the field.

Robert de Normandie is himself captured, and forced to give up all claims to the Duchy of Normandy. He and the rest of his family flees to Apulia, to join Lanfranc and his brother William. Odo is anointed Duke Odo of Normandy by Maurille, Archbishop of the See of Rouen (and therefore Normandy). Duke Odo burns the remainder of the towns loyal to Robert, and soon the only man in Normandy that can challenge him is Ralph De Gael, his loyal retainer. In his last act as bishop, Odo gives up his office as Bishop of Bauyex to Roger de Montgomerie, son of Odo's deceased captain of the same name.

Meanwhile, in England, Harold, acting in Edgar's name, drives out the few Norman nobles who own land on the isles, and redistributes the land to loyal Saxon thanes.

In July, Robert Guiscard of Hautville, Duke of Apulia and Calabria, begins to build up his forces for an invasion of the County of Capua, currently held by Richard Drengot. The immigrants from Normandy bolster his armies, enabling his preparation to be completed in August.

However, fearful of the burgeoning power of the Hautvilles, Count Richard allies with Gisulf, Lombard Count of Salerno, and both buy mercenaries from lands held by the Pope, hoping to trick "The Guiscard" into believing that the Papacy will excommunicate him if he attacks them.

Acting separate from both the Guiscard and the two Counts, the exiled Robert Curthose sneaks away from the hostilities, into Rome, where he seeks an audience with Pope Alexander. His audience is granted, and Robert pleads with the Pope to allow him to command a force of Papal soldiers against a possible Norman attack against the Papacy. In return for his service, Robert asks for the city of Vasto in the region of Abruzzo to be granted to him, along with other lands that only the Papacy could provide. Pope Alexander agrees to his terms, should the Normans attack.

As August ends, Robert Guiscard declares war on Count Richard and Count Gisulf. Unknown to the Duke is that a Papal/Norman force, lead by Robert Curthose, marches against him, intending to fulfill their end of the deal with Pope Alexander by attacking (and thus being attacked by) any Norman faction that they come across.
 
Interesting that Robert is getting a papal place to rule - surely he's not given up on Normandy already?

He's marching against the Duke but is his brother with the Duke, or are all the family together.

Whats the releationship like with Scotland at the minute? In OTL it was where Edgar fled to and i think the Scotish King was married to his sister. With no Normans could be very different.
 

Zioneer

Banned
Interesting that Robert is getting a papal place to rule - surely he's not given up on Normandy already?

He's marching against the Duke but is his brother with the Duke, or are all the family together.

Whats the releationship like with Scotland at the minute? In OTL it was where Edgar fled to and i think the Scotish King was married to his sister. With no Normans could be very different.

Oh, I wouldn't say he's given up.... As for his family and Scotland, you'll see.
 

Zioneer

Banned
Annnd I'm back with more TL-ly goodness.

September-December 1066


September: Duke Odo (now known as Odo de Bayeux) marries Agnes, the daughter of Guy-Geoffrey, Duke of Aquitaine, as a way to legitimize his rule. Guy-Geoffrey, for his part, agrees to the marriage to extend his influence to the northern lands in France.


King Malcolm of Scotland sees the weakness of the Northumbrians, of Earl Morcar falling in battle against the Danes and being replaced with Eadric Wilde, a mere earldorman. After watching the violence in England and Normandy, he enlists the services of Tostig, brother of Harold, who knows the tactics of the Saxons quite well.

Tostig arrives in Scotland, and begins instructing the Scottish in various tactics, designed to defeat the armies of King Edgar (and more importantly, the forces of Earl Harold). He demands a large stretch of land in Northumbria in exchange for his aid against the English. King Malcolm agrees to the demands, though wanting those same lands for his own use.

Meanwhile, King Harald Hardradara of Norway makes motions of moblizing a force against the English, and demands one thing in return for not invading England in a time of weakness: The hand of Margeret Atheling for his son Olaf. He seeks to legitimize his claim on England this way, but realizes that his own days are numbered. Earl Harold's exploits against the Danes and the Normans impress the Norwegian King enough that he offers a force of 1,500 Norsemen to King Edgar to be used against the Scots. Edgar, frustrated that Harold keeps him away from any battle, declares that the marriage will be null and void unless the troops are placed under his command.


Hardrada himself is approached by Alexios Kommenus, one of the most talented of the Byzantine princes, and offered a deal. Hardrada had formerly been a member of the Varangaran Guard, an elite group of men from across Scandinavia devoted to the Eastern Roman Emperor. Alexios, though young, knew Harald by the Norse lord's fearsome reputation. Hardrada, eager to gain loot and glory, and bored of his constant wars with the Danish King Sweyn, agreed, but noted that he was busy with his plotting in the Anglo-Scottish war.

Mid-way through September, Robert Guiscard takes a force of 3,500 Norman soldiers, and assaults Count Gisulf at his fortress of Salerno. Gisulf is slain in the vicious combat, ending the line of the Lombard Princes of Salerno. However, Guiscard is severely wounded, and though Salerno is taken, the war grinds to a halt until the new year.

In the last days of September, Edith of Merica bears Harold Godwinson a son, also named Harold.

November

Throughout November, the Scots and the English build up their forces in preparation for war. However, the autumn and upcoming winter is an especially chilly one, and the armies are forced to go back to the fields to stave off a famine. The war is stalled, for the moment.

Over in Normandy, Duke Odo faces the first threat to his rule, a peasant uprising rumored to be sponsored by the regents of young King Phillip Capet of France, who disapprove of Odo's usurpation of the Duchy. Odo shows his ability as a military commander and ruler by crushing the rebellion and redistributing the land/farms of the dead rebels amongst loyal peasants. He even grants several knighthoods to commoners that showed bravery in battle.

In Brittany, Conan II of Brittany was not poisoned (In OTL, he was assassinated in this way, likely by Duke William of Normandy) and instead goes along with his OTL plans to invade Normandy, by first besieging the city of Angers, to neutralize his rival, the Duke of Anjou. The residents of the city are stubborn, however, and resist his attempts to starve them out. Thus, Conan settles in for a long seige. Conan placates King Phillip (and thus, the massive armies of France) by promising to bring the Normans under French control after resolving this dispute with Anjou, and by swearing fealty to the King.

December:

Robert Curthose, awarded with Vasto and a force of several hundred Papal soldiers (combining with his own Norman followers), attacks Geoffry of Hautville, Robert Guiscard's brother, at Benevento. Geoffry is killed, and Robert Curthose of Normany seizes complete control of the town of Benevento, along with the town's surrounding areas.

The Guiscard, still recovering from his wounds, responds slowly, and Robert Curthose is quick to proclaim himself "Duke of Normandy in Benevento", signifying that he still has designs on Duke Odo's domain. Curthose allies with Richard Drengot, becoming fast friends with both Richard and his son, Jordan. Robert Curthose pays homage to the Pope for his lands. A large amount of Normans opposing Robert Guiscard immigrate to Robert Curthoses lands.

Returning the Drengots a favor (as they helped to install him within the Papacy), Pope Alexander II proclaims the Peace of God between Richard Drengot and the Guiscard, recognizing both in their possessions. He also recognizes Robert Curthose as Count of Vasto and Benevento, infuriating Robert Guiscard, who vows to remove the Pope from power by any means possible.

Observing the events in Italy, Harold Godwinson wisely begins the construction of several monasteries in Wessex, to placate the Pope.

In his old age, Lanfranc of Pavia, (teacher of Robert Curthose) starts to write a history of the Normans in Sicily. He will die before it is finished.
 

Zioneer

Banned
Really? No comments anymore? Even with 675 views? Huh. Alright then. I don't bite, so the lack of comments can't be that... I'm continuing the timeline, but I do hope that there are more comments...
 

Zioneer

Banned
1067, January to March

January:

In the beginning of January, Harald Hadrada sets off from Norway to finally meet Alexios Komnous. He sails along with a large force of about 5,000 Norsemen. As he arrives at the court of Alexios, he is impressed by the young Greek Prince, by his ambition and skill, even at the young age of ten years. Alexios explains that he will offer land and gold to the Norse, for them to be his own personal Varangian Guard, and to increase his own power. About 3,000 of the Norsemen accept, and Harald leaves a captain over them. He receives a large gift of gold from Alexios before he returns to Norway.

Pope Alexander, with the English matter of church independence (or lack thereof) solved for now, looks to the continental kings to ensure his dominance. He contacts King Sweyn of Denmark with a deal: Allow the Pope to appoint bishops in Denmark, in return for all the Bishops to be Danish, as well as forcing Archbishop Adalbert of Hamburg-Bremen to submit to either the Danish King, or the Holy Roman Emperor in his lands and finances. Adalbert chooses the Emperor, but is loathe to be under either ruler, and begins talks with the powerful Dukes of Bavaria and Saxony.

King Sweyn, still wounded from his war against the Anglo-Saxons, sees an easy opportunity to increase his power, and agrees.

Meanwhile, the Eastern Emperor Constantine X Doukas further cuts spending to the military arm of the Byzantines, to fund ever more decadent practices. This infuriates the more military-inclined of the Greek Princes, and several begin thoughts of rebellion.


February:


During this month, a son, named Berthold, is born to the powerful Duke of Swabia, Rudolf of Rheinfelden. The Duke, previous entertaining rebellious thoughts, instead wishes to ensure a safe future for his heir, and becomes an extremely loyal servant of the Emperor.

Also during this month, Robert Guiscard recovers from his illness, and plans to invade Rome and deprive Robert Curthose of his lands.

In France, Duke Conan of Brittany finally conquers the city of Angers, and then easily takes enough of Anjou to force it's Duke to the bargaining table. In the Peace of Anjou, Conan receives key towns and land, that improve his wealth and prestige immensely.

March:

The cold winter lets up in this month, and King Malcolm of Scotland invades Northumbria with a force of 7,000 Scots. After looting a few towns, he is met in battle by King Edgar, who leads 2,000 Saxon infantry, along with the 1,500 Norse soldiers that Harold Hardrada loaned the English.

In a mighty battle, the Norse soldiers under Edgar are easily beaten, Tostig Godwinson's advice to King Malcolm invaluable to beating the Saxon shield wall. Edgar himself learns that he does not like the taste of battle, and flees the site of his first battle (and defeat), leaving the remainder of his forces to the Earl Eadric, the new Earl of Northumbria. Eadric rallies his forces, and flees to York, collecting troops in the villages along the way.

At the end of March, Eadric faces King Malcolm in battle, and earns his nickname of "the Wild" by inspiring his troops (especially the remaining Norse) to rouse into a bloody rage by tales of the murderous Scots and traitorous Tostig. This proves to be a vital factor in Eadric's victory against King Malcolm. After this mighty victory, Eadric begins to push into Scotland, to repay the Scots in blood money.

Meanwhile, in France, Duke Conan of Brittany marches upon Duke Odo of Normandy, but is unable to make any progress against the still powerful Norman army. The two sides agree to a white peace, and in the peace proceedings, become fast friends through their mutual dislike of the kingdom's Frankish culture, despite their differences as Breton and Norman. They sign a trade agreement, economically choking the merchants of Paris through their shared control of the rivers running through Northern France.

In Italy, the Normans and Italians under Robert Guiscard lay siege to the outlying cities under the control of the Papacy. Robert Curthose continues to honor his deal with the Pope by using his forces to ensure that the Italio-Normans cannot get any further into Papal territory.
 

Zioneer

Banned
1067: April to July

April
In the beginning of April, Eadric the Wild's swath of vengeance across the Scottish domain of Lothian causes him to overextend himself, and he is nearly defeated by King Malcolm's forces, only saved by the treachry of Máel Snechtai of Moray, grandson of the legendary King Macbeth, pursuing his claim to the throne of Scotland. King Malcolm defeats Máel Snechtai, and the treacherous lord of Morary flees to his lands, but in the confusion, Eadric manages to slip away with a few dozen troops.

In France, King Phillipe, dismayed by his two northern vassals' might, attempts to sever the economic power of the Normans and Bretons by demanding that they sever their trade agreement, hoping that the authority of the King would convince them to do so. The powerful northern dukes refuse, and King Phillip begins looking for a French wife, to extend his power in the other parts of France.


May

In May, Robert Curthose is finally defeated by the Apulian Normans led by the Guiscard, and forced to withdraw into his wooden "castle" at Vasto. However, his efforts in fighting the Apulians pays off, as Pope Alexander rallies a mighty Papal host, and drives the Guiscard from his estates.

Pope Alexander forces the Duke of Apulia to recognize Robert Curthose as Count of Benevento, as well as forcing the monthly payment of tribute upon Apulia. However, Robert Guiscard proves his cunning by convincing the Pope that his Normans could help against those kings that do not wish to accept the Pope's overlordship. A force of Italio-Norman mercenaries are accepted by the Papacy as a large part of the tribute.

In England, Earl Harold finally arrives, and beats back King Malcolm and the assembled Scottish lords, of Scotland at the cost of most of his troops and the last of the Norse loaned to England by Harald Hardrada. However, Harold's treacherous brother Tostig manages to escape again, this time fleeing to the lands of the Rus. King Malcolm signs a white peace with Harold, and thus, by extension, King Edgar of England.

Both sides are weakened by the war, but in the process Harold Godwinson has gained much glory, as both he and Earl Eadric, whom he appointed to the Earldom of Northumbria, fought back the Scottish, while King Edgar was beaten and fled quickly. Grumblings about the King begin circulating amongst the more powerful nobility.

June

In June, little of Importance happens.

July

In July, a son is born to Duke Odo I of Normandy, first of the house of Bayeux. The son is named Roger, and is made Count of Maine to prepare him for ruling the Duchy.

Also in July, Máel Snechtai is beaten by King Malcolm of Scotland, but not overwhelmingly, and is allowed to keep his lands in return for re-swearing his loyalty to the crown, as well as submitting to increased taxes on his portion of Scotland.
 
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Zioneer

Banned
The Rest of 1067:

Little of importance happens.

1068: January to March

In an effort to increase his waning power, King Phillipe of France becomes engaged in March to Bertha, sister of the Count of Holland. He will not consummate the marriage for several years. Unlike in OTL, Bertha of Holland is a beautiful young lady, and King Phillipe has no complainants about her appearance.

In England, Earl Harold Godwinson begins a campaign of poisoning the ears of the Saxon nobility against King Edgar. In private audiences to the most powerful earls and thanes (who trust him far more then they trust the cowardly, constantly partying Edgar) Harold claims that after Edgar, the line of Cerdic must never be kings again, that it would drive England into destruction. He says to all the nobles that he has no feud with King Edgar, but would prefer a different dynasty in control after Edgar's death.

He is largely successful, with most of England grateful for his victory over the Normans and Danes back in 1066. The only major noble who is not firmly under the influence of Harold is Earl Edwin of Mercia, who bears a grudge against the scions of Godwin for the death of his brother Morcar in the Danish portion of the war of 1066.

April to August

In April, King Phillip of France seizes the lands of Baldwin VI, Count of Flanders, citing "subversive Teuton influences", but really simply wanting greater control over any part of France. Baldwin naturally objects to this, and rebels against the King. Duke Odo of Normandy, suspicious of the king's seizure of the northern land of Flanders, sends some Norman infantry to aid the Flemish count.

However, King Phillip, uncommonly showing some sense, bribes the Norman mercenaries by promising them rich Flemish land. With these turncoat Normans and the considerable armies of France, King Phillip easily crushes Count Baldwin, killing the Flemish lord in battle. As he promised, he divides most of the land up amongst the turncoats. However, many of the Normans in Flanders die mysteriously by August, and most of the land is re-distributed to minor nobles loyal only to King Phillipe.

Half a continent away, in Hungary, the regents of King Solomon of Hungary (who is currently 15) give concessions to the Church, to ensure the conversion of the unruly pagans still within it's borders. The ever-canny Pope Alexander not only provides missionaries for Solomon, but also manages to begin alliance negotiations between France and Hungary, to combat the threat of the Holy Roman Emperor.
 
Interesting, i thought Harold wanted a pliant king on the throne he could rule through yet now he seems to be trying to get rid of him?

Have you got a map of France showing areas of influence etc
 

Zioneer

Banned
Interesting, i thought Harold wanted a pliant king on the throne he could rule through yet now he seems to be trying to get rid of him?

Have you got a map of France showing areas of influence etc

Harold isn't exactly trying to overthrow Edgar, he's just ensuring that the reign of Saxon weak kings ends with Edgar. He wants to put his own child on the throne, so if he can influence the nobles to support him, and guarantee that Edgar dies a 'heroic' death in battle...

As for a map of France, I'm a noob at editing maps, so not quite yet. Stay tuned for the 1074 update, which is where everything will change, including France.
 

Valdemar II

Banned
You said Sweyn Forkbeard had a host of NORSE. Norse in this context means Norwegian. Sweyn's men would be Danes. Sorry about the nitpick, but it's true

Incorrect Norse was a term for all Scandinavians, coming for the fact that the Nordic countries was called Norden (the North) at the time (and still are in Danish/Swedish/Norvegian).
 
Incorrect Norse was a term for all Scandinavians, coming for the fact that the Nordic countries was called Norden (the North) at the time (and still are in Danish/Swedish/Norvegian).
Norse certainly is used sometimes for 'Norwegian' and other times for 'Scandinavian'. It's sort of like 'Yankee' for American - or perhaps more like 'American' for a USian.

Saga era Icelanders called the language they spoke the "Danish Tongue" (dansk töngu (sp?)), which is interesting, because they spoke a Norwegian dialect, not a Danish one.

Valdemar, is it not true that Norsk=Norwegian? (If not, I've got a very confused dictionary at home:))
 

Valdemar II

Banned
Norse certainly is used sometimes for 'Norwegian' and other times for 'Scandinavian'. It's sort of like 'Yankee' for American - or perhaps more like 'American' for a USian.

The problem are that it quite unclear whom belong to whether tribes. Especially because it has been muddled by 19th century romantism, where the different nationalist historians all claimed some historical persons to belong to their nation (both Danes and Norvegian claims Rollo as a example).

Saga era Icelanders called the language they spoke the "Danish Tongue" (dansk töngu (sp?)), which is interesting, because they spoke a Norwegian dialect, not a Danish one.

It's important to remember that Danes made up the majority of the Scandinavian population at the time, the dominant position of Swedes are only a post 16th century phenomen. It's the equalant of use the term English for Scots (English). The difference in language wasn't bigger. It also important to remember that Denmark seem to have been a much more centralised state and the main Scandinavian power, which gave the Danish dialect a greater status (it's the equalant of calling all Romance language in Italy for Latin in 100BC*).

Valdemar, is it not true that Norsk=Norwegian? (If not, I've got a very confused dictionary at home:))

Yes Norsk are the name for the Norvegian languages (Nynorsk and Bokmål), while a Norvegian person are called a Nordmand(Danish)/Nordmann(Norvegian)/Norrmann(Swedish) in plural the "a" are replaced with "æ/e/ä".

The translation for Norse in Danish would be Nordboer, through ironic in Swedish it translate into Nordmän. It rather clear that the term are used for all North Germanic peoples. While I don't like to use Wikipedia as a proff, it also see Norse as a word for all North Germanic groups
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norsemen

*Latin was just the dialect spoken in the area around Rome, and as such the prestigeous dialect.
 
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Zioneer

Banned
Hey. Guys. Does it really matter that much? You know what I meant, as I clearly said that Sweyn was a Danish King. And it was an honest mistake, either way.

Anyways, more TL-ly goodness.

September to October 1068

In September, a daughter named Hawise is born to Duke Conan of Brittany, and he immediately engages her (to be married in the future) to Roger, son of Duke Odo of Normandy, further cementing the good relations between the Normans and Bretons.

1069:

In January, Lanfrac of Pavia dies. William Rufus, the youngest son of William of Normandy, decides to be trained in the priesthood, and takes up his old protector's dream of writing a history of the Normans. He will become known as William the Chronicler, and will go on to write a scathing and hateful dialogue mocking his step-uncle Odo of Normandy.

In March, King Edgar finally catches wind of Harold Godwinson's slander against him, and demands that Harold give him restitution and land to make up for it. Harold refuses, and for now, Edgar backs down, though relations are greatly strained between Earl and King.


Wishing to ensure his family's prestige, power, and perceived piety, Harold continues his policy of constructing churches across the domain of he and his brothers, and stores much of his riches within their walls. He also constructs fortifications around the churches, to show that he will take measures to protect the bishops and their flocks. This has the added bonus of allowing Harold to use the churches as fortresses.


In July, King Sweyn II of Denmark sends a large force of Danish troops to conquer several of the Aland islands, seeking to gain a foothold in the northern pagan land. Facing surprising heavy pagan resistance, he will not succeed until September.



In December, the Eastern Roman Emperor Constantine X Doukas dies suddenly, with many suspecting assassination. The Eastern Roman Empire explodes into a massive civil war, setting off what will later be called "The Age of Rebellions" across Europe. However, most European scholars claim that the Age of Rebellions does not truly happen until 1072.
 
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