Kingdom of the Ukraine

In 1917 Kaiser Karl's cousins were poised to win throne for themseleves. One was to be offered the Polish crown while his son, who commanded the Austro-Hungarian Army'sUkrainian Legion. It was to this Hapsburg that the Ukrainian people turned to. Let Us suppose that with the collapse of the Russian Military in 1917-18 this Hapsburg is offered and accepts the throne.
In 1918 he manages to use the legion as the bases for the creation of a Ukrainian National Army. The army is able to train and equip itself so that it is a capable military force. Thus when the war in Europe comes to an end the allies are left with a choice- support the new Kingdom of the Ukraine or allow chaos and the Soviets to seize it.
The British are convinced by Chuchill that it is better for the peace and security of europe to support a Hapsburg Prince on the throne than to allow the Red s to sieze it. France also agrees. Both countries supply the new government with arms and finacncial support. As a result the Reds are unable to crush the new Kingdom.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
Pavlo Skoropadskyi, Symon Petilura, Volodomyr Vynnychenko, Mykhailo Hrushevsky all had better chances to create a united stable Ukraine able to stand against the USSR, they all failed.
 

ninebucks

Banned
With Ukraine subjugated under a foreign monarchy entirely at the behest of the Western powers there's bound to be even more Red sympathisers in the Ukraine willing to side with the Soviets.
 
Actually the young Hapsburg Archduke considered himself more of a Ukrainian than anyone else He could speak, read and write the language and he was very popular with his troops . While their might have been problems with the far eastern parts of the Ukraine the same could not be said of the western parts. It is quite possible from what I have read that the man referred to as The Red Prince might just have pulled it off if he had received more co-operation from the senior Central power partner and there was less of the infighting amount the Ukrainian leadership. The Germans insistance upon control is what helped to doom everything.
My proposal see a more sensible approach and the young Hapsburg leader building a well trained and equipped army . The Austro-Ukraiian Legion would have been a strong building block.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
He had some followers in East Galicia, which had been a part of the Habsburg Empire, the Eat Ukrainans would never follow him though. If he's able to create a Ukrainan Kingdom in East Galicia he'd still face the threat of the Poles, The East Ukrainans and perhaps the USSR.
 
He had a lot of supporters in the AUstrian Province and as the war moved into Ukraine proper he gained more support from people in that area. it was to the "Red Prince" that the Ukrainian leadership turned to. Still for this to be successful the Germans would have to be less of a hinderance.
 
I think that if the Red Prince's father was on the Polish throne then there probably would be a great deal of co-operation between the two Kingdoms with regard to the Soviet threat. It might also make it more of a certainty for cousin Karl to regain the Hungarian throne.
 
He had a lot of supporters in the AUstrian Province and as the war moved into Ukraine proper he gained more support from people in that area. it was to the "Red Prince" that the Ukrainian leadership turned to. Still for this to be successful the Germans would have to be less of a hinderance.
There's no shortage of anti-communist leaders in 1917-1920 Ukraine who enjoyed unlimited foreign support. However, none of them enjoyed significant local support (the closest thing to local anti-communist movement, Petlyura, had less volunteers than Reds).
 
The Problem with the Ukraine was that the Central powers and even local Ukrainian groups were not united behind any one leader. As The germans began to leave and things started to fall apart quite a few of the Ukrainian leaders and groups began to turn to the Hapsburg "Red Prince".
If there had been more support earlier then perhaps there would have been the capacity to organize a strong government which might have had the ability to not only fight the Reds but to win the lyalth of the people.
 
Let us now look at the Kingdom of the Ukraine in 1918. By now the Central Powers troops had withdrawn from most of Russia and the Ukraine.
The Ukraine had finally been able to organize a government in Kiev and had made the Austrain Born Archduke its King. He had used his Austrian -Ukrainian Legion as the base upon which to build a National Ukrainian Army. The army had been able to acquire weapons from the withdraing Austrian and German Armies as well as captured Russian Weapons.
With his family connections he was able to achive an agreement with Poland that would asure him of help in dealing with the Soviet threat.
Since the Whites were battling the Reds he was asure that there would be little trouble with them. The western powers were very concern with the Soviet threat to the rest of europe so both Britain and France were willing at this point to deal with the Kingdom of the Ukraine and help it.
 
Let us now look at the Kingdom of the Ukraine in 1918. By now the Central Powers troops had withdrawn from most of Russia and the Ukraine.
The Ukraine had finally been able to organize a government in Kiev and had made the Austrain Born Archduke its King. He had used his Austrian -Ukrainian Legion as the base upon which to build a National Ukrainian Army.
Archduke will have to fight White Russians (who see him as "Austrian puppet" and probably half of whites spent 1914-1917 battling the Austrians, so it would be major understatement to tell that they would not be friendly to his regime), Directorate (who wanted "German barons" ruling them as much as someone wants a plague), Makhnovites and Reds. And he must pull this trick having just two divisions of Legion. Well, I wish him a lot of luck, he'll need every drop of it. He wouldn't be able to draw a lot of support in either Central (Directorate) or Eastern (Directorate, Makhnovites, Reds) Ukraine.

The army had been able to acquire weapons from the withdraing Austrian and German Armies as well as captured Russian Weapons.
Shortage of weapons had never been an issue for any side in Ukrainian civil war. Even most low-tech of all armies battling there (anarchist Makhnovites, fer crying out loud) were able to field one machine gun per every 10 or so troops.

With his family connections he was able to achive an agreement with Poland that would asure him of help in dealing with the Soviet threat.
That he might. However, IOTL Poles saw Ukrainians as their natural subjects and categorically refused to co-operate with them as with equals. Directorate was treated as bunch of underlings. So, I see a lot of major ASB brain surgery performed on Polish leadership in order for Vasyl to succeed.

The western powers were very concern with the Soviet threat to the rest of europe so both Britain and France were willing at this point to deal with the Kingdom of the Ukraine and help it.
As I said, securing foreign support was never an issue for anyone battling Reds on Ukraine. Local support was.
 
Are we assuming that the Germans set up a PROPER Polish government during the war? IIRC this was their aim, but the refusal of Pilsudski to properly co-operate led to the limited-powers Regency government and they never got round to choosing formally Karl Stefan of Teschen, let alone crowning him

Now, if we CAN bring about a proper solution, and IMHO it needs both sides to bend (and perhaps the Third Supreme Command to come about differently, or be under proper governmental control) then you COULD end the war with OTL-like defeats, and collapse but see a strong-enough Polish kingdom survive

IMHO this is a pre-requisite for any Habsburg hopes in the Ukraine to survive, rather than be swept away. Interestingly, it also probably comes about with the coronation of a Finnish king and a Lithuanian one, since the final settlements for those two countries would not have been so-delayed without the Polish fiasco

Thus, we could have the odd situation of a barrier of German allies/ex-puppets being the first line against Soviet power in the East, and in this situation Western support for Wilhelm in Ukraine would make sense

Intriguingly, the Tatars in the Crimea might eventually merge with something out of this too

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Grey, I have always been of the opinion that for the Kingdom of the Ukraine to survive it would need the help of some stong allies. A strong Kingdom of Poland under Stefan would more than likelybe that ally. With the Red threat there is also the strong possibility that the Western Allies might also be willing to overlook Hapsburgs on the throne in return for containment of the Red menance.
If the Finns had moved faster and had crowned their German Prince as their King then it is likely that once again Britain and France would have accepted the choice.
 
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