Kingdom of Saguenay

[Umbral]

There are many accounts from the 1500 and 1600 hundreds of a rich kingdom in northern North America consisting of tall blonde people.
Some people have speculated that it was a memory of viking settlements in North America.
Less mainstream, it has also been suggested that there was an actual settlement of norse Greenlanders beyond the Vinland one.

In Europe, it was believed that the inhabitants of the Western Settlement in Greenland had reverted to paganism, killed the chruch officials, and escaped to Vinland.

There was sufficient belief in this for King Magnus Erikson to send an expedition to Vinland to serch for the pagans in 1354.

Although current research have indicated that at least some of the inhabitant of the western settlement perished from hunger, reports from the people who found the settlement abandoned refer to abandoned cattle wandering around.
The cause of the locals wrath with the church was said to be the church having gradally aquired ownership of the local farms in payment of fees.

Eastern Canada is a big place.

Is it possible that the Norse Greenlanders did establish a briefly flourshing little pagan kingdom there? Call it Saguenay, or Estotiland, or Norumberga.

They had a lot of centuries to flourish, fall and be forgotten.

 

[Umbral]

No responses?

Legendary Kingdom

Just wondering about the options od people more knowledgable than myself on the possiblity. Not thinking of a "Kingdom of the Franks" size entity, more something on the lines of a dark ages Welsh kingdom.
Wiped out by smallpox before europeans made (re)contact.

 

[Sir Isaac Brock]

No responses?

Legendary Kingdom

Just wondering about the options od people more knowledgable than myself on the possiblity. Not thinking of a "Kingdom of the Franks" size entity, more something on the lines of a dark ages Welsh kingdom.
Wiped out by smallpox before europeans made (re)contact.

There are plenty of places were a pre-Columbus European settlement could happen, and there are plenty of stories like that on ah.com already. If you want to stir some dicussion on this you'll need to add some more of your own ideas to the basic legend.

 

[Umbral]

Mmh...I wasn't actually thinking of it as a direct AH thing...tangential really.

Although when I have time, I may write up a short timeline of a doomed "Autumn Kingdom" of the west.

The church is resented in the Western Settlement, and as the climate worsens it aqquires more posessions. Until a winter when several families starve to death, while the priest emerges fat as a tick and with herd of cattle.

Angry villagers butcher the priest.

Terrified of what they have done, and coming out of the harshest winter in memory, they flee to Vinland.

Not having the benefit of our modern maps, instead of going south along the coast of Vinland, they go west, to the lands they know from whaling and fur hunting expeditions, then turn south. Making landfall somewhere on Hudson Bay, and moving inland.

They retain some contact with their kin in Greenland, but due to the criminal start of the venture, keep their existence secret. Over time the village becomes a refugee for Greenlanders, and debtors, criminals, and other malcontents from Iceland. Despite secrecy, some notion of the existence of the place reaches the ears of officials, and a punitive expedition is sent from Scandinavia after the priestkiller, but utterly fails to find the place.




However, when I read about places like this, the writers are often...less than critical in their attitudes. I wanted to solicit the opinions of knowledgable people on the odds of a small place like this really existing in Canada half a millennium ago, and us not having knowledge of it.

In favor of the notion are things like the remains of settlement at L'Anse aux Meadows wans't noticed untill the 60s, despite being on the coast. And there are many reports of such a place existing.

Against it is the lack of artefacts from trade, and diseases.