Kingdom of Peru

General Jose de San Martin was a bit of a monarchist, and while he was Protector of Peru from 1821-1822 he actively promoted a monarchial form of government for Peru. He sent out agents to attempt to get a prince of the Spanish royal family, and failing that, get the Duke of Suffolk as the recipient of the Peruvian crown.

While these agents failed in finding a king, if they found an accepting candidate, could San Martin convince the Peruvians to accept the king? And if he is successful, will the monarchy last?
 
General Jose de San Martin was a bit of a monarchist, and while he was Protector of Peru from 1821-1822 he actively promoted a monarchial form of government for Peru. He sent out agents to attempt to get a prince of the Spanish royal family, and failing that, get the Duke of Suffolk as the recipient of the Peruvian crown.

While these agents failed in finding a king, if they found an accepting candidate, could San Martin convince the Peruvians to accept the king? And if he is successful, will the monarchy last?



hmm, If only Don Carlos could be persuaded.....

If Ferdinand's first daughter had actually lived and he had plotted to give her the crown early enough....
 
Well, as a Peruvian, I can tell you two things and stick in something I think I've read somewhere:

The latter: I swear I saw somewhere that San Martin was aiming for a Prussian/German after the Spanish declined.

The former: Peru was what Russia was in the 90s. Incredibly unstable with the upper class playing oligarchy, people still being abused somewhat, but incredibly rich in natural resources and seen as the world's mineral mine(which it was for the most part until the mid 1850s). Peru was actually expected to be somewhat of a regional power with weak comparison in regards to a European power. What does this have to do with accepting a king?

Well, the peasants had no choice in the matter, the oligarchy was leashed by San Martin, the military was on a leash by San Martin, so yes, definetly possible, as they won't make problems. Especially if he's a Spaniard(Peru was mainly filled with natives with close to no rights, Mestizos that where the middle class, and Spanish Peninsulares/Creoles as the upper class/people with power). Now, if successful? That depends on stabilizing Peru's economy, and not losing ground to Chile. Succesful war against Chile and full annexation of Bolivia would guarantee you loyalty to the crown if the crown pulled this off. Just one would most likely get you a stable monarchy. Lose the war against Chile and the monarchy's toast, though. Peruvians still remember and resent(or should I say loath to be outright truthful?) Chileans for taking territory from Peru. Yes, it has to do with propaganda from the military dictatorship, but to most people, it's like interupting the pledge of alliegance in the most rude way possible. No one's gonna sue you over it, but you WILL get some insults your way from nationalists.
 
Well, as a Peruvian, I can tell you two things and stick in something I think I've read somewhere:

The latter: I swear I saw somewhere that San Martin was aiming for a Prussian/German after the Spanish declined.

The former: Peru was what Russia was in the 90s. Incredibly unstable with the upper class playing oligarchy, people still being abused somewhat, but incredibly rich in natural resources and seen as the world's mineral mine(which it was for the most part until the mid 1850s). Peru was actually expected to be somewhat of a regional power with weak comparison in regards to a European power. What does this have to do with accepting a king?

Well, the peasants had no choice in the matter, the oligarchy was leashed by San Martin, the military was on a leash by San Martin, so yes, definetly possible, as they won't make problems. Especially if he's a Spaniard(Peru was mainly filled with natives with close to no rights, Mestizos that where the middle class, and Spanish Peninsulares/Creoles as the upper class/people with power). Now, if successful? That depends on stabilizing Peru's economy, and not losing ground to Chile. Succesful war against Chile and full annexation of Bolivia would guarantee you loyalty to the crown if the crown pulled this off. Just one would most likely get you a stable monarchy. Lose the war against Chile and the monarchy's toast, though. Peruvians still remember and resent(or should I say loath to be outright truthful?) Chileans for taking territory from Peru. Yes, it has to do with propaganda from the military dictatorship, but to most people, it's like interupting the pledge of alliegance in the most rude way possible. No one's gonna sue you over it, but you WILL get some insults your way from nationalists.

As to your first point, I just finished a biography of San Martin, and it clearly stated that the Duke of Suffolk was his second choice. There's probably more to that whole story though, and my knowledge in this area is somewhat shallow.

As to San Martin's ability to put in the king, yes he had the army, but he was getting unpopular with the Peruvians, and if the king is seen as being imposed on Peru by San Martin, he will lack the popularity to stay in power for long after San Martin's army is gone.

Thirdly, if the king is accepted, you can't deal with Chile and Bolivia until the Royalists in the sierra are defeated, and San Martin doesn't have enough forces to defeat them. Once Bolivar comes coming, is he going to want the new king removed in return for his troops defeating the royalists?
 
Bolivar wanted a pan-latin state, then several large latin states once that dream was shattered, and then was forced to settle for what was on the table, the only reason Gran Colombia came into being was because of Bolivar, Peru was too proud to union with another at that point, Bolivia was supposed to be part of Peru and Bolivar was annoyed that they seperated it from Peru for the sake of naming a country after him, and Chile was a wildcard. La Plata was also a wildcard. I can see him supporting a king if he gets one of his wishes, and Peru swallows Bolivia and/or Chile. Chile was a bunch of mountains at that time for the most part, so it is realistic, at that point in time. I'm not exactly sure wether Bolivar was government-wise, I believe he supported republics, but I have no clue as to how dedicated he was to that. I think he just really wanted the Spaniards out. That's all I got when it comes to Bolivar. :eek: As for the military, sadly, military repression is a Latin American tradition, I imagine the military will put down the revolt or two and let the King do his job. While the problem here though is, how much power will the military have? The King needs to be either politically skillfull, or just be plain-out terrifying to keep the military on leash, and I also see one other thing that could occur. Should the Englishman become King of Peru and some unfortunate accident occur, It seems to me as though we have a British Peru on our hands. TBH, I've always wondered what would happen under a British Peru. :D
 
Bolivar wanted a pan-latin state, then several large latin states once that dream was shattered, and then was forced to settle for what was on the table, the only reason Gran Colombia came into being was because of Bolivar, Peru was too proud to union with another at that point, Bolivia was supposed to be part of Peru and Bolivar was annoyed that they seperated it from Peru for the sake of naming a country after him, and Chile was a wildcard. La Plata was also a wildcard. I can see him supporting a king if he gets one of his wishes, and Peru swallows Bolivia and/or Chile. Chile was a bunch of mountains at that time for the most part, so it is realistic, at that point in time. I'm not exactly sure wether Bolivar was government-wise, I believe he supported republics, but I have no clue as to how dedicated he was to that. I think he just really wanted the Spaniards out. That's all I got when it comes to Bolivar. :eek: As for the military, sadly, military repression is a Latin American tradition, I imagine the military will put down the revolt or two and let the King do his job. While the problem here though is, how much power will the military have? The King needs to be either politically skillfull, or just be plain-out terrifying to keep the military on leash, and I also see one other thing that could occur. Should the Englishman become King of Peru and some unfortunate accident occur, It seems to me as though we have a British Peru on our hands. TBH, I've always wondered what would happen under a British Peru. :D

Bolivar was a republican, but very authoritarian-ish (see the Bolivian Constitution he wrote). The point is that he effectively forced San Martin to leave in return for Bolivar defeating royalists. San Martin and the king that he finds won't be able to defeat the royalists on their own as I said, they don't have enough men.

While Peru won't want to be part of some Pan-South American state, the king may get sacrificed to Bolivar in return for military help if he isn't entrenched enough. If neither side will budge, Bolivar may stay in Ecuador, or stay focused inward on Gran Colombia (I don't know enough about Bolivar to say for sure). San Martin may retire soon anyway as he was getting tired of Peru, but we still have Royalists in Bolivia and the sierra that can't be driven out, but can't really take back Lima.

Perhaps if the king is a Spanish Bourbon, he can the Royalists to lay down their arms through some kind of compromise. Maybe the royalists will be more willing to talk to a Spanish king rather than their enemy, San Martin?
 
Perhaps if the king is a Spanish Bourbon, he can the Royalists to lay down their arms through some kind of compromise. Maybe the royalists will be more willing to talk to a Spanish king rather than their enemy, San Martin?

I think this is possible. IOTL we have the example from the governor of Chiquitos, a province of Alto Peru, who in 1825 sent a message to the provincial government of Mato Grosso asking the Emperor Pedro I of Brazil to annex the territory he ruled in order to avoid it being incorporated into the new Republic. If a loyalist governor was willing to give his territory to the son of a Portuguese monarch because he believed it would be better than a republic, I think he and other loyalists would at least consider the idea of accepting a Spanish king of Peru.
 
I think this is possible. IOTL we have the example from the governor of Chiquitos, a province of Alto Peru, who in 1825 sent a message to the provincial government of Mato Grosso asking the Emperor Pedro I of Brazil to annex the territory he ruled in order to avoid it being incorporated into the new Republic. If a loyalist governor was willing to give his territory to the son of a Portuguese monarch because he believed it would be better than a republic, I think he and other loyalists would at least consider the idea of accepting a Spanish king of Peru.

That was after Ayacucho though, so the royalists had their backs up against the wall. Still, it's an interesting point to work from. Perhaps guerillas assassinate La Serna one way or another, and more moderate royalists come forward to negotiate. Maybe not all of the royalists come forward, but enough men lay down their arms to cripple the royalists to the point where the new Peruvian Kingdom's troops can retake the sierra and then perhaps Upper Peru/Boliva from there.
 
At this time, who are the available Bourbon princes that could accept the throne? I looked around for a good family tree, but I didn't find anything.
 
Would San Martin go for a Bourbon? A great deal of the independence war was liberalism vs. absolutism, so whoever gets some kind of support would have to be a liberal.
Plus, San Martin didn't have enough military and political support at that point. He, or the king, would have to gather economical, political and military support from Peru. If the populace don't want a king, the revolutionaries would have a hard time getting troops
 
Would San Martin go for a Bourbon? A great deal of the independence war was liberalism vs. absolutism, so whoever gets some kind of support would have to be a liberal.
Plus, San Martin didn't have enough military and political support at that point. He, or the king, would have to gather economical, political and military support from Peru. If the populace don't want a king, the revolutionaries would have a hard time getting troops

San Martin did want a Bourbon from what I've read, but as you said, with his influence declining in Peru, it might require a little bit of handwavium to get a monarchy established.
 
San Martin did want a Bourbon from what I've read, but as you said, with his influence declining in Peru, it might require a little bit of handwavium to get a monarchy established.


Carlos, Duke of Molina, though he is actually looking to inherit Spain proper given that his brother has no living heirs at that time.

Francisco, duke of Cadiz, the father of the what would be our future husband to Isabella II, is the next in line seems your most likely candidate from the Spanish Bourbons.

Of course there are also King Ferdinand's cousins in the Two Sicilies branch.

Leopold, Prince of Salerno or even

Charles and Leopold, sons of Francis I who would only be in their early teens and thus might be acceptable from the point of view that they would be easier for the Peruvians to mold to there own ends if need be in the early years. Mind you there might then be an influx of Neapolitan or Spanish advisors to the King as well in those early years to help him bridge the gap or transition as the case may be.
 
San Martin did want a Bourbon from what I've read, but as you said, with his influence declining in Peru, it might require a little bit of handwavium to get a monarchy established.

Actually if Ferdinand had accepted to be ruler of New Spain/Mexico, in personal union with Spain as was initially proposed then the precedent would be set. He would have to send someone mor e substantial as viceroy, and brothers, Carlos or Francisco are a good bet for that.


Then Mexico and Spain might part ways when Ferdinand decides to make Isabella his heir. Carlos, Emporer of Mexico, and Francisco, King of Peru provided the liberals still succeed in their efforts in Spain, though arguably with Carlos and Francisco absent as rallying points Maria Christina may not be as beholden to the liberal faction in Spain following Ferdinand's death.
 
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