Kingdom of Austria?

abc123

Banned
Let's say that after CP-wins WW1, A-H Monarchy breaks apart. And German Empire get's Cisleithania ( except Galicia, she goes to Poland-Ukraine whatewer ).

If German Empire stay's divided in various kingdoms, principalities, duchies etc. how would new lands be organised if Habsburg-dynasty remains in power there?

What would be the name of Austria? Konigreich Osterreich?
Because it can't be Kaiserreich if Kaiser is in Berlin, right?
But, Austria was never in history a Kingdom, so it would be a precedant...
Archduchy also isn't good solution, because that's only Upper and Lower Austria. What to do with Tyrol, Carinthia etc...
 
This depends on what the Hapsburgs keep. It could be reasonable to be ruler in personal-union for several German states, that would multiply power. An archduke could be seen as equivalent to a king considering protocol.

If Bohemia becomes German, the Hapsburgs could remain kings of Bohemia, a very traditional title.
 
Austria would lay its claims to being an Archduchy - the title was such a big part of the Habsburg mythos that they considered their title high than that of King.
 

abc123

Banned
This depends on what the Hapsburgs keep. It could be reasonable to be ruler in personal-union for several German states, that would multiply power. An archduke could be seen as equivalent to a king considering protocol.

If Bohemia becomes German, the Hapsburgs could remain kings of Bohemia, a very traditional title.

Well, I envisaged that Kingdom of Bohemia ( Moravia and Silesia incorporated ) is also part of Empire. Habsburgs rule over that kingdom.

Also, Archduchy of Austria ( is this title is equaal with title of king ) consisting of Upper and Lower Austria, Stiria, Salzburg, Tyrol, Vorarlberg, Carinthia, Carniola, Gorizia, Trieste and Istra, could be another new Land for German Empire.
Maybe different branches of Habsburg dynasty ruling in Bohemia and Austria?
 
Well, I envisaged that Kingdom of Bohemia ( Moravia and Silesia incorporated ) is also part of Empire. Habsburgs rule over that kingdom.

Also, Archduchy of Austria ( is this title is equaal with title of king ) consisting of Upper and Lower Austria, Stiria, Salzburg, Tyrol, Vorarlberg, Carinthia, Carniola, Gorizia, Trieste and Istra, could be another new Land for German Empire.
Maybe different branches of Habsburg dynasty ruling in Bohemia and Austria?

Archduke was more or less equivalent to the rank of electoral prince, higher in rank than most Grand Dukes and Grand Princes, except Royal and Imperial ones (Lithuania and Russia); but the Archduke was a rank below king.

Furthermore only Lower and Upper Austria were a part of the archduchy, Styria, Carinthia, Carniola and later Salzburg (former archbishopric) were duchies, Tyrol a princely county etc. these at one point were ruled by archdukes as a personal title for a member of the house of Habsburg (later Habsburg-Lorraine).

These were however all part of the traditional Austrian hereditary lands of the Habsburg, so it does make that these all belong to 'Austria'.

(I admit to mostly post in before 1900 :))
 
Why would an Emperor accept demotion...

to being a mere King or even Archduke especially when the British King and Prussian King remained Emperors (questionable about the Tsar obviously) and the Hapsburg dynasty reigned across Europe when the Hanoverian and Hohenzollern dynasties were little more than noble farmers!

Especially after a victorious war.

The Japanese Emperor is an Emperor without an Empire. The same could have been said of Brazil.
 

abc123

Banned
to being a mere King or even Archduke especially when the British King and Prussian King remained Emperors (questionable about the Tsar obviously) and the Hapsburg dynasty reigned across Europe when the Hanoverian and Hohenzollern dynasties were little more than noble farmers!

Especially after a victorious war.

The Japanese Emperor is an Emperor without an Empire. The same could have been said of Brazil.

Well, it happend. Because of some reason, Empire of Austria doesn't exist any more and people want's to be a part of Greater Germany.
 
Also which dynasty were you thinking of to rule Austria?

Obviously your scenario requires the Hapsburgs to be deposed.
The Habsburgs. His scenario seems to be that despite winning the war, A-H breaks apart which is far from unlikely, especially if victory is after Franz' dead. The Magyars were rather hot-headed in those days after all... Not sure the Czechs would like to be in the German Empire though, they would at least demand substantial cultural autonomy, including Czech universities and the like, before accepting.
 

abc123

Banned
The Habsburgs. His scenario seems to be that despite winning the war, A-H breaks apart which is far from unlikely, especially if victory is after Franz' dead. The Magyars were rather hot-headed in those days after all... Not sure the Czechs would like to be in the German Empire though, they would at least demand substantial cultural autonomy, including Czech universities and the like, before accepting.

I agree.
About Czechs, nobody would really ask them...
;)

But yes, they will get some sort of autonomy, as any other land in German Empire. And right to have Czech as co-official language there.
 
Austria-Hungary is not going to collapse in the aftermath of a CP victory; the various states that made up the Empire were reliant upon either, the hysteria in November 1918 for self determination overlooked the fact that Austria and Hungary’s economies and systems of government were inter linked and reliant upon the other, this caused them both considerable detriment throughout the 1920s. The same could be said for other parts of the Empire, without defeat there simply is not going to be the same urgency for self determination; this gives the Emperor valuable time to reform.
The Emperor was conscious of the conflicts in his Empire, had he had the chance, which after a victory he would, then it’s possible he could have enacted the kind of reforms which Franz Ferdinand had mooted.
In the aftermath of a monumental military victory against the UK, France and Russia, the Hapsburgs are going to feel galvanised and reinforced, they are going to solidify their empire, not allow it to collapse.
The Habsburgs are certainly not going to accept being demoted from being Emperors to Kings or Archdukes and certainly not subject to the Hohenzollerns. Simple. You will have to depose them or find some way for them to retain the title and status.
Why when Austria has been an integral part of a monumental CP victory is it going to seek to become just “another” state in a Greater Germany, on a par with Bavaria, dominated by Prussia, when in the Austrian-Hungarian Empire it is the dominant state?
Where’s the logic in that? It’s just not a realistic position.
 
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