King Richard I of Jerusalem

The heaps and bounds you're willing to go through just so you can avoid having Richard and Isabella married despite all non-Angevins candidates post-Baldwin V being related by marriage to them is a little ridiculous, once again they were related far apart among medieval nobility to not have any issues despite very possibly requiring a Papal dispensation.

The POD is the invitation of the Patriarch for a Prince of the Realm (either English or French) to accompany him back to Jerusalem in 1185. This is when the Kings England and France and the HR Emperor all pledged to go on crusade (and in the case of Henry II and Philip II, not being anxious to actually go themselves).

Sybilla and Isabella were first cousins of Richard's father, and both were married by that point. Yes, Papal dispensation for wedding first cousins did happen, and annulments for consanguinity between second cousins did also happen, but we are talking about a Papal annulment followed by a marriage of first cousins involving a groom who historically was reluctant to marry....

Guy was deemed unsuitable by both Baldwin IV and several of the principle commanders, especially the Count of Tripoli. The fact that Guy had seduced Sybilla prior to marriage very likely did not help in this regard.
 
The only way Richard would become KoJ would be if he was somewhat lower in the succession order, and probably not having Aquitaine to begin with. If he is somewhat in line for succession,he would not have given up what he had in Europe to go to Levant.
 
True, but he is more possible to marry Isabella instead of Richard, for Richard to be KOJ, have William, the other son of Eleanor to survive.
John as King of Jerusalem would be a very bad idea... Sure is pretty unlikely who he can do worse than Guy but I do not think he will do better...

Either William surviving or you can do it with Richard exiled (or sent in Outremer as penance) after a bad fight with his father and ending to renounce to Aquitaine in exchange of annual payments and permanent military support...
 
John as King of Jerusalem would be a very bad idea... Sure is pretty unlikely who he can do worse than Guy but I do not think he will do better...

Either William surviving or you can do it with Richard exiled (or sent in Outremer as penance) after a bad fight with his father and ending to renounce to Aquitaine in exchange of annual payments and permanent military support...
In this case, John becomes the Duke of Aquitaine and marries Alix..
 
In this case, John becomes the Duke of Aquitaine and marries Alix..
I think a renounce of Aquitaine will happen later and likely will favour either the Young King, Geoffrey or one of his brothers-in-law as Richard will not renounce to his mother’s inheritance so early...
 
I think a renounce of Aquitaine will happen later and likely will favour either the Young King, Geoffrey or one of his brothers-in-law as Richard will not renounce to his mother’s inheritance so early...
As I remember, Marie of France reconciled with Eleanor of Aquitaine and her grand child Joan of Flanders is an ally of John IOTL, if Henry II of Champagne does not die or even marry Isabella, we can have Theobald of Champagne as the Duke of Aquitaine.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/2850324?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
 
As I remember, Marie of France reconciled with Eleanor of Aquitaine and her grand child Joan of Flanders is an ally of John IOTL, if Henry II of Champagne does not die or even marry Isabella, we can have Theobald of Champagne as the Duke of Aquitaine.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/2850324?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
If Richard married either sister you can be sure who Henry of Champagne will not marry Isabella here.
And as Richard was already named Duke of Aquitaine will be either Eleanor to choose another heir in her will or Richard to decide to who he will give Aquitaine...
 
If Richard married either sister you can be sure who Henry of Champagne will not marry Isabella here.
And as Richard was already named Duke of Aquitaine will be either Eleanor to choose another heir in her will or Richard to decide to who he will give Aquitaine...
I think another bride for Henry of Champagne would be Isabella of Hainault the OTL bride of Philippe Auguste.
 
I think our scenario would be the marriage between Philip, count of Flanders and Marie of France happen and have kids and Henry II of Champagne marries Isabella of Hainault which might also butterfly the death of the young king.
 
The POD is the invitation of the Patriarch for a Prince of the Realm (either English or French) to accompany him back to Jerusalem in 1185. This is when the Kings England and France and the HR Emperor all pledged to go on crusade (and in the case of Henry II and Philip II, not being anxious to actually go themselves).

Sybilla and Isabella were first cousins of Richard's father, and both were married by that point. Yes, Papal dispensation for wedding first cousins did happen, and annulments for consanguinity between second cousins did also happen, but we are talking about a Papal annulment followed by a marriage of first cousins involving a groom who historically was reluctant to marry....

Guy was deemed unsuitable by both Baldwin IV and several of the principle commanders, especially the Count of Tripoli. The fact that Guy had seduced Sybilla prior to marriage very likely did not help in this regard.
It’s all politics. Richard has no power base within the kingdom. Either he marries a local to consolidate his rule or he isn’t going to be obeyed very much by independent minded ‘native’ nobles. Besides,he’s not exactly homosexual either.He did actually father a bastard.

Either way, the church is ridiculously flexible if there is a political need that suits them. There’s not much problem in this situation where there is a clear need for the church to grant an annulment in order to retain Catholic rule over Levant. The marriage between Eleanor and Henry II was itself in a similar situation you described. Eleanor got an annulment from Louis on grounds of consanguinity,followed quickly by marriage to a more closely related cousin.Richard and Sibylla are not first cousins either....Richard was the great-grandson of Fulk whereas Sibylla and co were the grandchildren of him.
 
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What about reversing the Brides of Richard and Henry II of Champagne, Richard I has three daughters with Isabella of Jerusalem and Henry II of Champagne has a son with Berengaria.
 
Yes, Papal dispensation for wedding first cousins did happen, and annulments for consanguinity between second cousins did also happen, but we are talking about a Papal annulment followed by a marriage of first cousins involving a groom who historically was reluctant to marry....

Just to drive the point across so that you understand the situation, first cousin is NOT first-cousin-once-removed, so please stop misusing either when you are already being quite picky about the degree of consanguinity.

And no Baldwin IV did not believe Guy was "unsuitable" until 1183 or 1184 (attempts of annulment) due to the clear possibility of Guy's lackluster skills dominating Jerusalem politics during the minority of Baldwin V, so I don't get why this was related to what I wrote, especially if the POD is in 1185 when Richard is to arrive in the Holy Land.
And Richard proved to be quite willing to marry if it would help his political and military situation (Berengaria was quite the political match that benefited his Occitan borders), especially if under this POD he wants to have a say in Jerusalem politics.

Regardless, Sybilla's annulment would be quite messy, but Richard would still need to marry into the local court, and Isabella's annulment to Humphrey of Toron did happen.
 
I think Henry the Young King can marry Ida of Boulogne after his divorce from Margaret of France in this scenario.
 
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