King in the North!

[Israel_Dan the Man]

Chapter 1: The King in the North!

July 8, 1709, Poltava, Russian Empire

It was the early morning. The army of the Swedish General Carl Roos was smashing through the Russian forces and overwhelming the first 2 redoubts, forcing the Russians back to the 3rd. This was the battle that was expected to bring Russia to its knees. Despite much heavier resistance from the 3rd redoubt, the Swedish forces broke through, defeating the Russian forces there [1]. When Russian reinforcements arrived, Roos' forces (who were ready for them) defeated them as well [2]. After the fighting was over, Roos moved with his forces to meet up with the other Swedish forces.

After Roos and his army arrived at the base of the rest of the Swedish force, the force of 17,600 Swedes marched forward, and at 8:00 in the morning they met the larger Russian force of 45,000 men head on. At first it was a stalemate, and there were multiple occasions when the Russians tried breaking through the Swedish lines [3], but the Swedish eventually broke through the Russian lines and pushed them back, inflicting casualties of 5,100 dead [including Peter I himself] and 1,700 captured, at the cost of 3,600 dead. Sweden had won.

The Russian forces were thrown back and had taken severe losses, and fled after it was revealed that Peter I was killed. The remaining Russian nobles knew that the Swedish forces were going to advance further into Russia, and they were uncertain of any remaining chance of victory. On July 12, Russia surrendered. The Invasion of Russia was over. The ceasefire was signed at Novgorod, ending the conflict. The treaty gave Sweden control of Karelia as well as the lands in the north near Karelia, including Arkhangelsk. This connected Sweden to its territories in OTL Estonia, and gave Sweden land that connected to Nyenskans (OTL Saint Petersburg).

The Cossack Hetmanate received independence due to them aiding Sweden against Russia, as agreed with Sweden (to see what lands they owned after independence, this link will give you an idea: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cossack_Hetmanate#/media/File:Ukraine_1740_kossaks_map.svg).

This would badly cripple Russia, due to them losing their only dock (Arkhangelsk) and losing the chance to get another one.

Before King Charles could celebrate, he had a bone to pick with Denmark-Norway to mention he feared that it was only a matter of time before they declared war on Sweden again. He launched an offensive in October after enough of his men had returned from the defeated Russia and had rested. He focused first on the former, sending 3 regiments (9,792 men) into Norway and another 2 regiments (6,528 soldiers) south to take Copenhagen. Norway fell first on October 10 after heavy resistance on the way to Oslo, followed by Denmark on the 21st of September despite heavy fighting and the hassle of defeating the Danish navy. The 2 countries but up a ferocious resistance, but both were exhausted from war as much as Sweden was and Denmark had sent a large force to fight in the War of the Spanish Succession, which led to a (costly) Swedish victory. Sweden also took over Mecklenberg and other parts of Northern Germany that once belonged to the Swedish Empire but had no chance of resisting a Swedish attack.

At the signing of the Peace of Goteborg, the royalty of Denmark-Norway formally renounced all their claims to the lands of Denmark-Norway and gave the lands to Charles XII (including Greenland and Iceland).

Map of Swedish Empire after the war (not my map):

(Sweden also owns Greenland)


As Charles XII was announced as King Charles XII of the Swedish Empire and all of Northern Europe, there was a murmur among his guards and closest friends in the nobility. It grew louder bit by bit, until the other people in the throne room could make it out to be Swedish for "The King in the North, the King in the North". This chant grew in volume until every Swede in the room was shouting "THE KING IN THE NORTH! THE KING IN THE NORTH!".

An infinite amount of power and glory was now right in front of Sweden.

All it had to do..... was take it.

[1] This is the POD. IOTL, the Russian redoubt held and the Swedish could not break through.
[2] IOTL, the heavy Swedish casualties after failing to take the 3rd redoubt (as well as the Swedish retreat right after] led to Russian reinforcements taking back the 2 other redoubts, flanking the Swedish, and defeating them
[3]The Russians IOTL broke through the Swedish lines, but ITTL the Swedes held the line due to better preparation and more men than IOTL.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Welp! My first ever timeline has been started! Here's hoping it doesn't stink. I apologize for the Game of Thrones references but I'm a sucker for that show.

I was inspired by @Antony444 and his timeline, so I decided to do my own timeline about a battle going differently.

I plan to make another chapter soon, but feel free to ask any questions! Also, if anyone knows how to make good maps or knows someone like @Zoidberg12 who may be willing to make a map, please let me know!

@alexmilman , I edited the POD [hint, Peter dies in the battle].

 

[Analytical Engine]

Charles XII of Sweden, colourised

 

[Israel_Dan the Man]

Charles XII of Sweden, colourised

Great, now all the Swedish people are gonna look like GoT characters in my head from now on. Not like that's a bad thing, though.

 

[FranzAncheNo]

Charles XII of Sweden, colourised

Not really the same.

 

[AnonymousSauce]

Sweden STRONK!

 

[krieger]

Chapter 1: The King in the North!

July 8, 1709, Poltava, Russian Empire

It was the early morning. The army of the Swedish General Carl Roos was smashing through the Russian forces and overwhelming the first 2 redoubts, forcing the Russians back to the 3rd. This was the battle that was expected to bring Russia to its knees. Despite much heavier resistance from the 3rd redoubt, the Swedish forces broke through, defeating the Russian forces there [1]. When Russian reinforcements arrived, Roos' forces (who were ready for them) defeated them as well [2]. After the fighting was over, Roos moved with his forces to meet up with the other Swedish forces.

After Roos and his army arrived at the base of the rest of the Swedish force, the force of 17,600 Swedes marched forward, and at 8:00 in the morning they met the larger Russian force of 45,000 men head on. At first it was a stalemate, and there were multiple occasions when the Russians tried breaking through the Swedish lines [3], but the Swedish eventually broke through the Russian lines and pushed them back, inflicting casualties of 15,800 dead and 5,100 captured, at the cost of 3,600 dead. Sweden had won.

The Russian forces under Peter I were thrown back and had taken severe losses. Peter I knew that the Swedish forces were going to advance further into Russia, and he was uncertain of any remaining chance of victory. On July 12, Peter the Great surrendered. The Invasion of Russia was over. The ceasefire was signed at Novgorod, ending the conflict. The treaty gave Sweden control of Karelia as well as the lands in the north near Karelia, including Arkhangelsk. This connected Sweden to its territories in OTL Estonia, and gave Sweden land that connected to Nyenskans (OTL Saint Petersburg).

The Cossack Hetmanate received independence due to them aiding Sweden against Russia, as agreed with Sweden (to see what lands they owned after independence, this link will give you an idea: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cossack_Hetmanate#/media/File:Location_of_Cossack_Hetmanate.png).

This would badly cripple Russia, due to them losing their only dock (Arkhangelsk) and losing the chance to get another one.

Before King Charles could celebrate, he had a bone to pick with Denmark-Norway to mention he feared that it was only a matter of time before they declared war on Sweden again. He focused first on the former, sending 3 regiments (9,792 men) into Norway and another 2 regiments (6,528 soldiers) south to take Copenhagen. Norway fell first on July 21, followed by Denmark on the 26th of July. Sweden also took over Mecklenberg and other parts of Northern Germany that once belonged to the Swedish Empire but had no chance of resisting a Swedish attack.

At the signing of the Peace of Goteborg, the royalty of Denmark-Norway formally renounced all their claims to the lands of Denmark-Norway and gave the lands to Charles XII (including Greenland and Iceland).

Map of Swedish Empire after the war (not my map):
View attachment 498400 (Sweden also owns Greenland)


As Charles XII was announced as King Charles XII of the Swedish Empire and all of Northern Europe, there was a murmur among his guards and closest friends in the nobility. It grew louder bit by bit, until the other people in the throne room could make it out to be Swedish for "The King in the North, the King in the North". This chant grew in volume until every Swede in the room was shouting "THE KING IN THE NORTH! THE KING IN THE NORTH!".

An infinite amount of power and glory was now right in front of Sweden.

All it had to do..... was take it.

[1] This is the POD. IOTL, the Russian redoubt held and the Swedish could not break through.
[2] IOTL, the heavy Swedish casualties after failing to take the 3rd redoubt (as well as the Swedish retreat right after] led to Russian reinforcements taking back the 2 other redoubts, flanking the Swedish, and defeating them
[3]The Russians IOTL broke through the Swedish lines, but ITTL the Swedes held the line due to better preparation and more men than IOTL.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Welp! My first ever timeline has been started! Here's hoping it doesn't stink. I apologize for the Game of Thrones references but I'm a sucker for that show.

I was inspired by @Antony444 and his timeline, so I decided to do my own timeline about a battle going differently.

I plan to make another chapter soon, but feel free to ask any questions! Also, if anyone knows how to make good maps or knows someone like @Zoidberg12 who may be willing to make a map, please let me know!

If Charles would enforce independence of Cossacks on Petya, he wouldn't give them as much land as it is shown in your link. Half of this land belonged to PLC, and Charles wouldn't want PLC to lose right-bank Ukraine, after he placed his puppet, Stanisław Leszczyński on it's throne. IMHO, Cossacks would be given just left-bank Ukraine as a independent state. Also Smoleńsk land should be returned to PLC. It's not something big, but it raises stability in Charles-aligned PLC and weakens Petya at the same time. @Jan Olbracht

 

[Israel_Dan the Man]

If Charles would enforce independence of Cossacks on Petya, he wouldn't give them as much land as it is shown in your link. Half of this land belonged to PLC, and Charles wouldn't want PLC to lose right-bank Ukraine, after he placed his puppet, Stanisław Leszczyński on it's throne. IMHO, Cossacks would be given just left-bank Ukraine as a independent state. Also Smoleńsk land should be returned to PLC. It's not something big, but it raises stability in Charles-aligned PLC and weakens Petya at the same time. @Jan Olbracht

I saw that one a 1654 map that that was the land the Cossacks had, but it could have changed over 50 years. As for the PLC, they had just fought Sweden a few years earlier, Sweden would be in no mood to do them any favors.

 

[krieger]

I saw that one a 1654 map that that was the land the Cossacks had, but it could have changed over 50 years. As for the PLC, they had just fought Sweden a few years earlier, Sweden would be in no mood to do them any favors.

It's not quite true, PLC's Sejm remained neutral. Charles overthrew Augustus II and placed his puppet, Stanisław Leszczyński on the throne. Leszczyński loyalist forces fought alongside Swedish troops. Smoleńsk is no great favor, but it weakens Russia and gives Leszczyński regime more legitimacy. As far as Cossacks are concerned, they lost control over a half of these lands in 60's of XVIIth century.

 

[Israel_Dan the Man]

It's not quite true, PLC's Sejm remained neutral. Charles overthrew Augustus II and placed his puppet, Stanisław Leszczyński on the throne. Leszczyński loyalist forces fought alongside Swedish troops. Smoleńsk is no great favor, but it weakens Russia and gives Leszczyński regime more legitimacy. As far as Cossacks are concerned, they lost control over a half of these lands in 60's of XVIIth century.

you're right, I put a more accurate map link

 

[Icedaemon]

I highly doubt there'd be a city of a size worth mentioning in OTL St Petersburg's location. It was Peter's most major pet project, the foundations of which took vast amounts of wealth and manpower. He desperately wanted a port in a location easily accessible and useful to his nation, in an area which used to be sparsely inhabited marshland previously. A city in that location would not be useful to Sweden. Rather, Vyborg and Narva would probably become larger and more important military fortresses and the cities which support said fortresses, defending the long-held and stable possessions of Finland and northern Estonia from future Russian revanchism. Perhaps also building up something along similar lines albeit smaller due to the area being much less easily accessible in Onegaborg (OTL Petrozavodsk) and Kem.

Also, even with the rest of Europe focused on the War of Spanish Succession, I doubt the other powers would be willing to countenance this many naked land grabs by Sweden. At the least, I'd expect the Kaiser would try and rally a major chunk of the HRE to retake Mecklenburg as soon as they've recovered a tiny biy from the current war to the west. Britain could possibly be kept out of Swedish affairs by promising them a nice trade deal.

 

[Israel_Dan the Man]

I highly doubt there'd be a city of a size worth mentioning in OTL St Petersburg's location. It was Peter's most major pet project, the foundations of which took vast amounts of wealth and manpower. He desperately wanted a port in a location easily accessible and useful to his nation, in an area which used to be sparsely inhabited marshland previously. A city in that location would not be useful to Sweden. Rather, Vyborg and Narva would probably become larger and more important military fortresses and the cities which support said fortresses, defending the long-held and stable possessions of Finland and northern Estonia from future Russian revanchism. Perhaps also building up something along similar lines albeit smaller due to the area being much less easily accessible in Onegaborg (OTL Petrozavodsk) and Kem.

Also, even with the rest of Europe focused on the War of Spanish Succession, I doubt the other powers would be willing to countenance this many naked land grabs by Sweden. At the least, I'd expect the Kaiser would try and rally a major chunk of the HRE to retake Mecklenburg as soon as they've recovered a tiny biy from the current war to the west. Britain could possibly be kept out of Swedish affairs by promising them a nice trade deal.

I agree on the first point, the most that Sweden will build here for the time being is a small-medium port. But better to own something that will help you just a bit than to let your enemy take it and use it to help them a lot.

Sweden is definitely going to go to war in Germany, but not every German state will be against them......

As for Britain, they and Sweden are going to have an interesting relationship for the next century or 2, I'll put it at that.

 

[Israel_Dan the Man]

Not really the same.

Why did you take the fun out of it, party pooper?

 

[alexmilman]

Chapter 1: The King in the North!

July 8, 1709, Poltava, Russian Empire

It was the early morning. The army of the Swedish General Carl Roos was smashing through the Russian forces and overwhelming the first 2 redoubts, forcing the Russians back to the 3rd. This was the battle that was expected to bring Russia to its knees. Despite much heavier resistance from the 3rd redoubt, the Swedish forces broke through, defeating the Russian forces there [1]. When Russian reinforcements arrived, Roos' forces (who were ready for them) defeated them as well [2]. After the fighting was over, Roos moved with his forces to meet up with the other Swedish forces.

After Roos and his army arrived at the base of the rest of the Swedish force, the force of 17,600 Swedes marched forward, and at 8:00 in the morning they met the larger Russian force of 45,000 men head on. At first it was a stalemate, and there were multiple occasions when the Russians tried breaking through the Swedish lines [3], but the Swedish eventually broke through the Russian lines and pushed them back, inflicting casualties of 15,800 dead and 5,100 captured, at the cost of 3,600 dead. Sweden had won.

The Russian forces under Peter I were thrown back and had taken severe losses. Peter I knew that the Swedish forces were going to advance further into Russia, and he was uncertain of any remaining chance of victory. On July 12, Peter the Great surrendered. The Invasion of Russia was over. The ceasefire was signed at Novgorod, ending the conflict. The treaty gave Sweden control of Karelia as well as the lands in the north near Karelia, including Arkhangelsk. This connected Sweden to its territories in OTL Estonia, and gave Sweden land that connected to Nyenskans (OTL Saint Petersburg).

The Cossack Hetmanate received independence due to them aiding Sweden against Russia, as agreed with Sweden (to see what lands they owned after independence, this link will give you an idea: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cossack_Hetmanate#/media/File:Ukraine_1740_kossaks_map.svg).

This would badly cripple Russia, due to them losing their only dock (Arkhangelsk) and losing the chance to get another one.

Before King Charles could celebrate, he had a bone to pick with Denmark-Norway to mention he feared that it was only a matter of time before they declared war on Sweden again. He focused first on the former, sending 3 regiments (9,792 men) into Norway and another 2 regiments (6,528 soldiers) south to take Copenhagen. Norway fell first on July 21, followed by Denmark on the 26th of July. Sweden also took over Mecklenberg and other parts of Northern Germany that once belonged to the Swedish Empire but had no chance of resisting a Swedish attack.

At the signing of the Peace of Goteborg, the royalty of Denmark-Norway formally renounced all their claims to the lands of Denmark-Norway and gave the lands to Charles XII (including Greenland and Iceland).

Map of Swedish Empire after the war (not my map):
View attachment 498400 (Sweden also owns Greenland)


As Charles XII was announced as King Charles XII of the Swedish Empire and all of Northern Europe, there was a murmur among his guards and closest friends in the nobility. It grew louder bit by bit, until the other people in the throne room could make it out to be Swedish for "The King in the North, the King in the North". This chant grew in volume until every Swede in the room was shouting "THE KING IN THE NORTH! THE KING IN THE NORTH!".

An infinite amount of power and glory was now right in front of Sweden.

All it had to do..... was take it.

[1] This is the POD. IOTL, the Russian redoubt held and the Swedish could not break through.
[2] IOTL, the heavy Swedish casualties after failing to take the 3rd redoubt (as well as the Swedish retreat right after] led to Russian reinforcements taking back the 2 other redoubts, flanking the Swedish, and defeating them
[3]The Russians IOTL broke through the Swedish lines, but ITTL the Swedes held the line due to better preparation and more men than IOTL.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Welp! My first ever timeline has been started! Here's hoping it doesn't stink. I apologize for the Game of Thrones references but I'm a sucker for that show.

I was inspired by @Antony444 and his timeline, so I decided to do my own timeline about a battle going differently.

I plan to make another chapter soon, but feel free to ask any questions! Also, if anyone knows how to make good maps or knows someone like @Zoidberg12 who may be willing to make a map, please let me know!

1. The number of the redoubts is wrong. See schema below.

2. There was Russian cavalry (10,000) placed immediately behind the redoubts. So the whole issue of the reinforcements and retaking the redoubts is rather irrelevant. When the Swedish cavalry rode between the redoubts, a cavalry battle followed in which Swedish cavalry lost 14 colors and was saved by advance of the Swedish cavalry. If anything, Peter refused to reinforce Menshikov’s cavalry with infantry and ordered its retreat because the main position was planned well behind the redoubts.

3. Swedes mostly marched between the redoubts (except for Ross ) because these redoubts has been built with a sole purpose to delay their advance and prevent an unexpected attack, not to stop it. The main fortification was a camp in which the bulk of the Russian army stayed until Peter ordered most of it out to face Swedes in the field. Even that part proved to be an overkill and it would remain such even if Ross joined the main force (he had initially 2,600 and only 1,500 after passing through the line of redoubts).

4. It actually were Swedes who were trying to break through the Russian lines by attack of their right flank: they managed to destroy the 1st battalion of the Novgorodian regiment but were stopped by arrival of the 2nd battalion. Swedish cavalry attack also failed. After that Russian counterattack against Swedish left flank won the day.

5. 17K soldiers hardly could beat 45k (actually, over 50K not counting over 20K irregulars) good quality troops with numerous artillery killing 15,800. Taking into an account usual 2:1 or 3:1 ratios of wounded to dead: it would be more than the whole Peter’s army. Not to mention that, even with Ross, after the fighting at the redoubts Swedish force would be well under 17,000 (*).

6. At the time of Poltava, even if it would end as a second Cannae, Charles could go only in one direction: back. This was understood by everyone and Peter would not have any reason to ask for peace. Fortifications ofbthe cities along the potential Swedish route had been strengthened and conquest of Russia with 15,000 or less was not a practical thing at that point.

7. Majority of the Cossacks joined Peter: Charles got a very small group that came with Mazepa plus Zaporojci whom he openly despised. So, an idea of the extended Hetmanate is rather unlikely. Especially taking into an account that a big part of the territory on your map belonged at that time to the Crimean Khanate.

(*) In OTL forces at the moment of the main confrontation:

Russians: 42 infantry infantry battalions (22,000) and 16 dragoon regiments (over 12,000) with 55 cannons and 32 cannons on the ramparts of the camp.
Swedes: 4,000 infantry with 4 cannons plus and 52 cavalry squadrons. Even if you add Ross with his 1,500 the numeric odds are too bad.

 

[Israel_Dan the Man]

1. The number of the redoubts is wrong. See schema below.

2. There was Russian cavalry (10,000) placed immediately behind the redoubts. So the whole issue of the reinforcements and retaking the redoubts is rather irrelevant. When the Swedish cavalry rode between the redoubts, a cavalry battle followed in which Swedish cavalry lost 14 colors and was saved by advance of the Swedish cavalry. If anything, Peter refused to reinforce Menshikov’s cavalry with infantry and ordered its retreat because the main position was planned well behind the redoubts.

3. Swedes mostly marched between the redoubts (except for Ross ) because these redoubts has been built with a sole purpose to delay their advance and prevent an unexpected attack, not to stop it. The main fortification was a camp in which the bulk of the Russian army stayed until Peter ordered most of it out to face Swedes in the field. Even that part proved to be an overkill and it would remain such even if Ross joined the main force (he had initially 2,600 and only 1,500 after passing through the line of redoubts).

4. It actually were Swedes who were trying to break through the Russian lines by attack of their right flank: they managed to destroy the 1st battalion of the Novgorodian regiment but were stopped by arrival of the 2nd battalion. Swedish cavalry attack also failed. After that Russian counterattack against Swedish left flank won the day.

5. 17K soldiers hardly could beat 45k (actually, over 50K not counting over 20K irregulars) good quality troops with numerous artillery killing 15,800. Taking into an account usual 2:1 or 3:1 ratios of wounded to dead: it would be more than the whole Peter’s army. Not to mention that, even with Ross, after the fighting at the redoubts Swedish force would be well under 17,000 (*).

6. At the time of Poltava, even if it would end as a second Cannae, Charles could go only in one direction: back. This was understood by everyone and Peter would not have any reason to ask for peace. Fortifications ofbthe cities along the potential Swedish route had been strengthened and conquest of Russia with 15,000 or less was not a practical thing at that point.

7. Majority of the Cossacks joined Peter: Charles got a very small group that came with Mazepa plus Zaporojci whom he openly despised. So, an idea of the extended Hetmanate is rather unlikely. Especially taking into an account that a big part of the territory on your map belonged at that time to the Crimean Khanate.

(*) In OTL forces at the moment of the main confrontation:

Russians: 42 infantry infantry battalions (22,000) and 16 dragoon regiments (over 12,000) with 55 cannons and 32 cannons on the ramparts of the camp.
Swedes: 4,000 infantry with 4 cannons plus and 52 cavalry squadrons. Even if you add Ross with his 1,500 the numeric odds are too bad.


View attachment 498671

Oh god, I screwed up. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

1. I was mainly basing the PoD on Roos breaking through since the reason that the Russians got time to prepare was due to the Swedish waiting for Roos while not knowing he had been defeated.

2. My PoD was also mainly based on the loss of the redoubts hurting the Russian ability to storm the Swedish positions, but yu are likely right so I may change some things.

3. No arguments with you, I will have to look up more of this to see how to fix my PoD.

4. I imagined that with more numbers than IOTL, the Swedish could hold the line due to having less of a numerical disadvantage (they'd still be outnumbered badly, but not as badly).

5. I edited the Russian casualties, thank you for knocking some sense into me.

6. The Russians can't last forever (though you likely have a point, neither can the Swedish). Loss after loss is going to hurt Peter's image among the generals and nobles.

7. IIRC, a decent amount still joined the Swedish side due to Sweden promising independence due to an agreement.

 

[Major Major]

Does he proclaim himself the Royal Knight of James III and muster a fleet of pirates to escort the Swedish Army to Britain for Operation Sjölejon?

 

[Israel_Dan the Man]

Does he proclaim himself the Royal Knight of James III and muster a fleet of pirates to escort the Swedish Army to Britain for Operation Sjölejon?

Not yet. Not for another 2 centuries, at least.

 

[alexmilman]

Oh god, I screwed up. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

1. I was mainly basing the PoD on Roos breaking through since the reason that the Russians got time to prepare was due to the Swedish waiting for Roos while not knowing he had been defeated.

2. My PoD was also mainly based on the loss of the redoubts hurting the Russian ability to storm the Swedish positions, but yu are likely right so I may change some things.

3. No arguments with you, I will have to look up more of this to see how to fix my PoD.

4. I imagined that with more numbers than IOTL, the Swedish could hold the line due to having less of a numerical disadvantage (they'd still be outnumbered badly, but not as badly).

5. I edited the Russian casualties, thank you for knocking some sense into me.

6. The Russians can't last forever (though you likely have a point, neither can the Swedish). Loss after loss is going to hurt Peter's image among the generals and nobles.

7. IIRC, a decent amount still joined the Swedish side due to Sweden promising independence due to an agreement.

It seems that impact of Ross activities is being evaluated differently by different authors but he was defeated by an overwhelming force (6 infantry battalions and 5 dragoon regiments) so, if he does not behave as an imbecile storming the redoubts instead of marching between them and then getting lost, these troops could be added to the main Russian field force making balance even worse. To be fair, Lewenhaupt also did not join Rehnskjold immediately but even if everything was going smoothly, at that point Swedish situation was quite bad: they had been facing immensely superior force well entrenched in the camp with a powerful artillery (Swedes already had been within the range and started suffering losses). At least according to Massie, at that point Rehnskjold decided to retreat to the initial position so that he could be strengthened by the troops left to guard the camp, siegeworks and communications. Before his plan could be accomplished Peter ordered the bulk of his infantry out of the camp to face Swedes on the open field (*).

Of course, the Russians could not last forever but after Poltava they kept fighting for more than a decade, fought unsuccessful war against the Ottomans and after all these efforts invaded Persia (1722 - 23) and after all that still had an army of over 100K. Taking into an account a wasteful style of the Petrian warfare, in 1709 they still plenty of resources. Swedish problem, even if they won at Poltava, was strategic: their numbers and supply situation would not allow the further advance and potential reserves were far away and Lewenhaupt’s experience demonstrated that the isolated columns could be destroyed on the route. At that junction (before OTL Poltava) Charles could make a peace but it would not be a peace on conditions you described: Peter was ready to cede some of his Baltic conquests but he was going to retain the coastal area with St. Petersburg (and the fortresses guarding the routes to it). So, at best, Charles could get back Narva and a small patch of a wasted territory. Taking into an account that with all his efforts Charles did not even reach the Russia proper, continued was would not make strategic situation much better for him.

Now, as far as the moral factor is involved, in the TL “Baltic Blunder” @Archduke provided scenario of “making elephant out of a fly”: insignificant military event being blown out of proportion and successfully advertised as a major victory. This is what Peter was already doing since 1701: minor successes of Sheremetev against Shlippenbach’s (**) tiny forces had been celebrated as the major victories. So, if Poltava somehow ends as a defeat (and, short of the intervention of the ASBs, it would be nothing like Narva), there would be some successful skirmishes and even defeat could be presented as a prudent retreat with some degree of success: there are captured Swedish colors and, anyway, both Zorndorf and Borodino had been reported as victories. So, no problem there. Anyway, Peter rarely took a field command so, as far as “image” was involved, it was images of his generals (after one of the defeats Repnin was demoted to the ranks but then forgiven): losing to the Swedes was not a shame.

As for the Cossacks, yes, few thousands joined Charles but they were deserting en mass, especially when Swedes tried to use them for digging the trenches. Anyway, the point was that the map you produced looks as a modern Ukraine, not as something which could exist even in 1740: a big part of the territory belonged to the PLC (Charles’ ally) and another big chunk was a Crimean Khanate (rather unlikely that Charles would go to war with it and the Ottomans).

Now, as far as other territorial losses of your TL are involved, keep in mind that places like Archangelsk were making sense for the Swedes only in one context: ability to take custom dues from Russian imports/exports. Outside of this context, it is more or less a wasteland in a middle of nowhere (except for some fishing, etc.). So, as was the case with the earlier loss of the Russian access to the Baltic coast (with the exception of the short period when they held Narva, Russians did not have any Baltic ports), a peace treaty would contain mutually acceptable regulations regarding the taxation, trade procedures, etc. Both the Brits and Dutch had been interested in that trade so, if necessary, they would apply certain pressure.

_______
(*) There was an argument between Peter and Sheremetev: Sheremetev was insisting on gettting more troops to the field to improve the odds even further while Peter was afraid that if the Swedes see even greater force, they’ll retreat without a battle. Taking into an account that Peter was anything but a restless type, his decision indicated that there was already a practically guaranteed kill. In other words, even in your scenario the overwhelming odds could be guaranteed.

(**) Schlippenbach is the Russian favorite Swedish general. First, because he was regularly beaten and it makes sense to laud his skills (of which only restless bravery is obvious) and second, because being from the Baltic provinces, he quite legitimately ended up on the Russian service.

 

[haider najib]

got a minor nitpick wouldn't emperor in the north make sense as he rules multiple kingdoms of different people.

 

[Admiral Fisker]

How does Charles get past the Danish Navy, which is better and stronger than the Swedish, not to mention conquer Denmark-Norway in 18 days? Charles failed to conquer Norway in two years with many more troops than here, and with Norway's mountainous terrain this is frankly ASB. I don't think communications at this time even allowed for such a command to be sent from the Ukraine to Sweden, not to mention the time it takes to gather men, organise and execute the plan. And how does he do it with so few troops? Denmark-Norway was one of the most heavily militarised countries in Europe and Copenhagen was the strongest fortified city in Europe. The Danish Army was large and mobilised, though to cut expenses a part of it had been hired off to fight the French under Marlborough. From Blenheim to Malplaquet, it proved a tough-as-nails fighting force. The Danes and Norwegians wouldn't just roll over, on the contrary, there was a fierce hatred of the Swedes (and a fear! When he unsuccessfully laid siege to the city in 1658-1660, Charles XII's grandfather had promised his men three days free rein to plunder and rape before razing Copenhagen to the ground). Charles would be met with hordes of infantry, militia and partisans the moment he set foot in Denmark with the intent to lay siege to Copenhagen.

Most importantly, however, by Poltava it was simply too late for Charles. The Swedes were starving and outnumbered. They were never going to beat the Russians.

 

[Israel_Dan the Man]

Chapter 2: The North Remembers (Europe 1709)

One would think that Charles XII would be satisfied after defeating Russia and ruling all of Scandanavia, as well as now ruling the Baltic sea. It now had a population of 4,010,054 people (per the latest census), far more than the 2.5 million it had before the war. A man with no desire for glory would decide to rest and integrate the new lands. Charles XII was not that man.

He remembered how the Saxons fought against him and overthrew the Polish government temporarily, causing Sweden major headaches. It was only a matter of time, he believed, before they attacked again, this time with potential allies. They had to be contained. However, he realized that he would have trouble doing it alone. A large portion of his men were either dead, badly wounded from fighting Russia and were recovering, or were making sure none of the new lands rebelled. To defeat the Saxons and their Habsburg allies, he'd need some help. He sent envoys to Poland-Lithuania, Venice, and France (Bavaria's ruler had left after the defeat at Blenheim, so France was running the show now).

The results were positive. On the negative side, Venice was unsure about joining when they risked becoming a Habsburg territory if they lost. However, France did open up communications. In November, Swedish diplomats met with French and Bavarian diplomats (who were somewhat desperate after losing at Blenheim) at the city of Stettin (well not much of a city, it had only 4,000 people) in Swedish Pomerania, and after days, if not weeks, of negotiations, this is what the terms of the Compact of Stettin were:

Sweden:
1. Must provide soldiers and ships to aid France and its allies.
2. Must support the Bourbon family in their attempt to seize the Spanish throne

France:
1. Must aid Bavaria in its German campaigns (not much of a condition since France was forced to run Bavaria at this point in the war already)
2. Must sign an alliance pact with Sweden

In addition to this, the Polish (who'd just finished putting the pro-Swedish king on the throne) agreed to join the war effort, but on the condition that they got East Prussia. Sweden accepted.

On December 6, 1709, the Swedish Empire and Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth joined the war on the side of the French Empire, declaring war on the Holy Alliance.

It seemed that this war that was started just to see who would put their puppet on the Spanish throne was now going to devour most of Europe.