King Henry VI never born or born a girl

[0100010]

POD: the would be conception of Henry VI

Scenario 1: King Henry the V and Catherine never bear a child together before his death in 1422.

Scenario 2: They have a daughter Instead, Henrietta. (or some other name of your choice)

Butterfly nets (these apply to both scenarios):
Thomas still dies childless in battle in 1421
John still dies of childless of Plague in Paris in 1435
Humphrey still dies in 1447 (or earlier), so does his son if he still has one. (no heirs)
Blanche's son Ruprecht still dies in 1426.
Phillipa does not die in 1430, and her son was not born stillborn in 1429. (Scenario 3: he is still stillborn)

Did I get the succession candidates right or did I miss anyone?
What would be the consequences of either scenario?

Who would be King/Queen of England in 1450?
How does this effect the rest of Europe?

 

[Ladymadchan]

If Henry V dies without a son or with a daughter I think John of Bedford would marry his widow Catherine of Valois. They'd get the dispensation and marry in the hopes that the heir of England would have a dual blood claim to the throne of France as the grandchild of Charles the Mad.

 

[0100010]

If Henry V dies without a son or with a daughter I think John of Bedford would marry his widow Catherine of Valois. They'd get the dispensation and marry in the hopes that the heir of England would have a dual blood claim to the throne of France as the grandchild of Charles the Mad.

Ok lets say he does. But butterfly net, he still dies in 1435 without any children. What happens next?

 

[Elfwine]

Ok lets say he does. But butterfly net, he still dies in 1435 without any children. What happens next?

Move on to the next claimant. After the House of Lancaster is down to females and distant descendants, expect someone to claim a better claim than _____ and there to be a fight.

 

[0100010]

Move on to the next claimant. After the House of Lancaster is down to females and distant descendants, expect someone to claim a better claim than _____ and there to be a fight.

Who do you think the most likely claimants will be who choose not to recognize lines from Henry V sisters (or daughter) and seek it for themselves?

Given that England's claim to the throne of France went through a female line, do you think that this will make claims to the English throne via those above mentioned female lines more acceptable?

 

[Elfwine]

Who do you think the most likely claimants will be who choose not to recognize lines from Henry V sisters (or daughter) and seek it for themselves?

Given that England's claim to the throne of France went through a female line, do you think that this will make claims to the English throne via those above mentioned female lines more acceptable?

The House of York (which has the Mortimer claim as well as the claim of Edmund of Langley's descendants) is the most serious.

As for female lines - I think the main thing is that once it becomes contested, we're talking might, not right.

 

[mcdnab]

I assume Henry V still dies on schedule in 1422
leaving a daughter (let's call her Mary) or no issue then highly likely his eldest surviving brother succeeds as John II
Given in OTL he didn't marry until 1423 he is now available and highly likely to need a wife - Catherine Valois is going to be a natural consideration if they can get a dispensation and the likelihood is they will have issue (John had no issue by either of his OTL wives but did have an illegitimate daughter)
However he will probably have issues in controlling France and with his brother Humphrey (with no fight for the regency they may be more supportive of each other - will be interesting if John gives Humphrey more support in his claims to the territories of his wife Jacqueline, Countess of Hainaut and Holland.
Assuming despite the above - John and Humphrey die on schedule and without male issue (which i think given the early POD is not likely)
Then the Beaufort's will claim the throne (based on their male line descent) and you have civil war between them and York (who if you discount the legitimisation of the Beauforts will be the last male line descendants of Edward III and chief heirs general through the mortimer line)
The Beaufort candidate on Humphrey's death in 1447 will be Edmund Beaufort
The York claimant will be Richard 3rd Duke of York
I would put money on York succeeding in those circumstances and a short and bloody end for the surviving adult male beauforts

 

[Mikestone8]

Iirc the Succession Act of 1406 included daughters as well as sons, so strictly speaking Henrietta [1] should still succeed her father in 1422.

Even if she were passed over in favour of her uncles (a distinct possibility given her extreme youth, though not certain as it would complicate the Lancastrian claim to France) she would almost certainly retain a reversionary right in the event of their dying childless - as OTL both of them did.

So it comes down to whom she will marry. The ideal choice would be Richard of York, but if wiki can be believed he was betrothed to Cecily Neville very early on. Failing him maybe Edmund Beaufort.


[1] Actually I suspect that Catherine, after her mother, would be more likely, but let it pass.

 

[mcdnab]

There has been a lot of discussion about the 1406 act over the years about whether it excluded or included women either way I think choosing an infant daughter (i think Mary for Henry's mother or Catherine for its own mother far more likely than anythign else) over an active and relatively popular uncle is pretty unlikely.
If John and Humphrey fail to have legitimate heirs as in OTL then the claims of the said infant (now a grown and probably married woman) will have increased dramatically though.
The Lancastrian claim to the English throne was based on a male line taking preference over a senior claim in the female line and Edward III's own intentions regarding the succession and ignored whatever Richard II may or may not have thought.
Of course England's claim to France was based on Edward III's heir general claim through his mother.
Under both those in this scenario - the rightful King of England was John Duke of Bedford on his brother's death
THe rightful claimant to the French throne in 1422 was Edmund Mortimer 5th Earl of March and then his nephew Richard Duke of York (through his senior descent from Isabella of France)