King Edward’s great matter

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    • Anarch King of Dipsodes

    isabella said:
    ...after that had that damned bishop of his declaring who King Edward had taken another wife before the mother of his children! The confused Englishmen had believed their words and now the bastard had declared Archduchess Elisabeth ... as illegitimate ...
    Click to expand...
    I never thought of that - that in declaring Edward IV's marriage invalid, RIchard may clear his way to the English crown, but would also give great offense to the husband of any of Edward's daughters.

    There are a lot of things to spin off of this.

    For instance, WI it's a fair cop? I.e. there is solid proof that Edward really did marry Eleanor Talbot and Elizabeth really is a bastard? (As are the Princes.) Let's say Richard hangs back, and doesn't rush to seize the crown. Instead he waits for opinion to swing round to acceptance, so the scandal can't just be passed off as an usurper's lie. Maximilian will still be upset, but can't blame Richard - it's really Edward's fault. And how the heck do the Habsburgs deal with this.

    Another thought: could there be a parallel situation at other times? Henry VIII, in getting his marriage to Catherine annulled, made Mary a bastard. WI she had been married overseas first? That would need a son for Henry who lives at least till Mary's marriage (as the heir presumptive would not be married abroad). But the son might die later, and Catherine continues to have stillbirths or miscarriages, leading Henry to conclude that the marriage is accursed and he needs to remarry for a male heir. But if he acts as OTL, he's made... the Queen of Portugal? a bastard.

    What other cases of retroactive royal bastardy were possible?
     

    isabella

    Anarch King of Dipsodes said:
    I never thought of that - that in declaring Edward IV's marriage invalid, RIchard may clear his way to the English crown, but would also give great offense to the husband of any of Edward's daughters.

    There are a lot of things to spin off of this.

    For instance, WI it's a fair cop? I.e. there is solid proof that Edward really did marry Eleanor Talbot and Elizabeth really is a bastard? (As are the Princes.) Let's say Richard hangs back, and doesn't rush to seize the crown. Instead he waits for opinion to swing round to acceptance, so the scandal can't just be passed off as an usurper's lie. Maximilian will still be upset, but can't blame Richard - it's really Edward's fault. And how the heck do the Habsburgs deal with this.
    Click to expand...
    Pretty unlikely any proof of that existed and the good faith clause who was usually applied to save the legitimacy of children born from annulled weddings would surely apply there. So likely the worst who can happen is having the wedding declared invalid but the children still legitimate (as Elizabeth would surely have no idea of Edward being already married and Edward, who is dead, likely was convinced to be free to marry). If you will continue to read, you will see how I played it...
    Anarch King of Dipsodes said:
    Another thought: could there be a parallel situation at other times? Henry VIII, in getting his marriage to Catherine annulled, made Mary a bastard. WI she had been married overseas first? That would need a son for Henry who lives at least till Mary's marriage (as the heir presumptive would not be married abroad). But the son might die later, and Catherine continues to have stillbirths or miscarriages, leading Henry to conclude that the marriage is accursed and he needs to remarry for a male heir. But if he acts as OTL, he's made... the Queen of Portugal? a bastard.

    What other cases of retroactive royal bastardy were possible?
    Click to expand...

    If Henry had obtained his annulment from the Pope, without the need to fight Catherine until exhaustion and break with Rome, Mary would be likely remain a legitimate princess (using the good faith clause or something like that) as usually the annulment of a wedding do not deprived the children of their legitimacy.
     
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