Khazars Conquer the Caliphate

[Hermanubis]

While reading the infallible Wikipedia, I came across this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazars
The Khazars enjoyed close relations with the Jews of the Levant and Persia. The Persian Jews, for example, hoped that the Khazars might succeed in conquering the Caliphate.[12] The high esteem in which the Khazars were held among the Jews of the Orient may be seen in the application to them, in an Arabic commentary on Isaiah ascribed by some to Saadia Gaon, and by others to Benjamin Nahawandi, of Isaiah 48:14: "The Lord hath loved him." "This," says the commentary, "refers to the Khazars, who will go and destroy Babel" (i.e., Babylonia), a name used to designate the country of the Arabs.[13]

Which got me thinking; would a Khazar conquest of Iraq be at all possible in the 9th, 10th, or 11th centuries? (where the Khazars still around in the 11th?) And what would be the consequences of that?

 

[CanadianGoose]

I don't think it is too realistic. Khazars fought several successful battles against invading Arab groups (which were more like recce parties than "invading armies" in proper sense of the term) and secured Iron Gates of Derbent to prevent farther Arab incursions, but for them to build decent logistic system to invade from Lower Volga through Caspian Sea and/or Caucasus and to eventually reach Land of Two Rivers would be bordering ASB. As far as timing goes, mid-10th century would be their last window.

 

[mikegold]

Ironically, I think the best chance of the Khazars conquering Persia and Mesopotamia requires that they be pagan (like, say, the Seljuks, Khwarezmians, and Mongols) requires that they remain pagan (or, of course, Muslim), and thus potentially amenable to conversion to Islam.

Of course, if you really so get a Jewish ruled (but majority Islamic and Zoroastrian) Persia Mesopotamia, and it can sustain itself for a few centuries (difficult, given certain Islamic attempts at reconquest, Byzantine hostility, and Central Asian nomads, eventually including something like the Mongols), then over time demographics will shift and you will have a Jewish majority.

Eventually, if such a state survived and remained stable, it would probably be able to occupy the Levant and Egypt, reconsecrate the Temple, find some impromptu linkage between Khagan Bulan and King David, and proclaim the coming of the Davidic age.

So entering the Renaissance era you have a surviving Byzantium, an Islamic North Africa, perhaps a Falasha Ethiopia, a Hindu India, and a Khazar Jewish superstate with borders something like the Achaemenid Empire.

This seems like an interesting TL. The development of European Jewry given a Rabbinic-Messianic Middle Eastern superstate would be fascinating.

It presumes a lot. But perhaps it's not wholly implausible. Feel free to poke holes as needed.

 

[TemporalRenegade]

Originally Posted by Hermanubis
While reading the infallible Wikipedia,

(Smacks forehead with palm)

NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!

...ends anti-Wikipedia rant.

As to the TL, aside from it being ASB, what with semi-nomadic Khazars conquering some of the most advanced people on the planet at that time, it seems interesting enough. But how would this uber-Kaganate hold up. When the Turkic Seljuqs conquered the Middle East, they adopted Islam. Unless the overlords from Khazaria adopt Islam, they would have few friends. Islam traditionally tought toleration of Jews and Christians, but I do not think any Muslim people would take kindly to being ruled by Christians or Jews. Hence the current anti-Semitism in the Muslim world, which has nothing to do with any inherent anti-Semitism in Islam, as the militant neocons, radical Zionists, and End Times fundies would have it.

After all, you would have potential aggressors from the West and possibly the South. Byzantines at the Northwest, North Africans at the Southwest, perhaps Arabs from the penninsula. The two nations would try to reconquer the Middle East. However, if this Khazar Kaganate somehow survives, you get a Zionist-wank scenario.

 

[RGB]

I just can't see it.

I can see them sacking Baghdad and such, i.e. doing a Hulegu three hundred years ahead of time. That would at least temporarily fragment the Muslims, and perhaps create a window for the Byzantines to overextend themselves.

When the Muslims recover, the Jews in Islamic countries will feel the heat. The Khazars will get an influx of people. Will they get enough in time to stop the Rus? Sviatoslav was almost ASB-ishly unstoppable during the period until the narartively appropriate fall due to hubris in Bulgaria.

Incidentally, the Khazar military also relied on Central Asian mercenaries, who were either pagan or Muslim at the time.

So some side branch adopting Islam and ousting the Jewish main line seems a very likely possibility; somewhat like it happened with the Mongols.

 

[rcduggan]

Which got me thinking; would a Khazar conquest of Iraq be at all possible in the 9th, 10th, or 11th centuries? (where the Khazars still around in the 11th?) And what would be the consequences of that?

The Khazar people may have survived until the twelfth or thirteenth century. But the Khaganate lasted as a significant power until ~968. Its height was from 850-900.

So some side branch adopting Islam and ousting the Jewish main line seems a very likely possibility; somewhat like it happened with the Mongols.

No, actually. It isn't. The khagan was a Jew, and until the very end remained a Jew. The beg (Khazar version of the shogun, basically) could convert to Islam, and would not have been a huge problem (assuming his successors were Jews. There was no side branch of the Ashina family.

Unless the overlords from Khazaria adopt Islam, they would have few friends.

Except for the large amount of Jews in Iraq, Persia, and the Levant, where they dominated the financial system of the caliphate...

 

[RGB]

No, actually. It isn't. The khagan was a Jew, and until the very end remained a Jew. The beg (Khazar version of the shogun, basically) could convert to Islam, and would not have been a huge problem (assuming his successors were Jews. There was no side branch of the Ashina family).

There wasn't?

Yes, the succession law. OK. So it largely prevents any side branches really arising.

Excuse me for the brain fart then.

 

[rcduggan]

There wasn't?

Yes, the succession law. OK. So it largely prevents any side branches really arising.

Excuse me for the brain fart then.

Bump because this presents interesting possibilities. I actually think there is a time when the Jewish Khazars could conquer Iraq / much of the Middle East, but it would have to be in the eighth century. In the ninth the Khazars were not as expansionist as in previous centuries: their main focus was on expanding and cementing the administration system of the khaganate.