Keynes' Cruisers

[steamboy]

The Warhawks are using their training and they are trained to dogfight, the Warhawk wasn't a bad machine, and was quite agile, but trying to turn with a Zero, low and slow I doubt even a Spitfire could turn with a Zeke. If they were faster and higher then the Warhawks structrual strength and power would probably even the odds out, but they are low down at the Zeke's preferred altitude and bleeding of speed to try and turn with them at low altitude and slow ish speeds. Which plays right into the Zero's performance envelope.

But 19 bombers down and a dozen damaged (some probably fatally) thats going to make a mess of those Shotai's.
Also the USAAF pilots are attacking without much in the way of coordination, its an incredibly difficult situation for them, to scramble after this surprise attack and just get anything airborn. Planes would be left behind due to damage or injured or dead pilots or damaged runways, and that would naturally mess up any squadron formation. As Fester said they are working together as loose gaggles, the F4's are sticking together and using the Thatch weave though and thats already proving very hard for the Zero's to handle.

But they NEED to get out of that dogfight. To quote the Battle of Britain movie. Forget the flaming fighters! Its the bloody bombers we want!

 

[RyderWest]

The Warhawks are using their training and they are trained to dogfight, the Warhawk wasn't a bad machine, and was quite agile, but trying to turn with a Zero, low and slow I doubt even a Spitfire could turn with a Zeke. If they were faster and higher then the Warhawks structrual strength and power would probably even the odds out, but they are low down at the Zeke's preferred altitude and bleeding of speed to try and turn with them at low altitude and slow ish speeds. Which plays right into the Zero's performance envelope.

But 19 bombers down and a dozen damaged (some probably fatally) thats going to make a mess of those Shotai's.

Not sure about how the Zero's will do when it runs out of cannon ammo, and a lot of .50 caliber bullets are striking their fuel tanks.

Also, is the famous "AIRRAID ON PEARL HARBOR X THIS IS NO DRILL" sent yet?

 

[fester]

December 7, 1941 0849 USS Nevada

32,000 tons of refined power had passed Hospital Point. Nevada had two boilers warm when the air raid alarms went off. Ensign Taussig scanned the sky and saw eleven dive bombers emerge from the flurry of aerial combat to the north of the harbor. Each one carried a large belly slung bomb and each additional second drove Nevada another 8 yards into the main channel connecting the inner harbor and the broad Pacific Ocean.


The Vals began to nose over as every gun on Nevada reached out for the attackers. Seventy degree dives at high speed provided the pilots some protection as the heavy anti-aircraft guns could not track them fast enough and the Nevada was short on modern automatic weapons. The first bomb arced down and destroyed the forward 5”/51 casemate, the second bomb detonated thirty yards off the port bow, the third bomb was a clear miss as an almost random .50 caliber round killed the pilot as he was releasing the bomb. That attacker crashed in the water 100 yards astern of the Nevada.

The fourth and fifth bombs straddled Nevada, while the sixth bomb jammed the forward triple turret. The next four bombs were near misses that covered the crew in angry water splashing from the formerly tranquil Pacific. The final bomb hit the sea plane launcher on the aft turret.

Nevada’s crews were already stringing hoses and assessing the damage when the bow of the ship broke clear of Iroquois Point and into the open ocean. USS Ward soon took station on Nevada’s wounded stern and began to add her hoses to the firefighting efforts near the destroyed seaplane catapult. More destroyers would soon surround Nevada as they cleared the Middle Loch.

Even as Nevada gained safety, disaster struck inside the harbor. California had been on fire for an hour and the inferno had kept the damage control teams from reaching the aft magazines. The initial bomb strikes had started fires near the magazines and flames finally reached the powder room. The entire rear forty percent of the ship just disappeared in a tremendous explosions. The rearmost turret flipped over due to the force of the explosion. Within seconds the forward part of the ship that was still recognizably a ship had started to sink. Seconds after the explosion as every man who had survived the initial blast had started to collect themselves, the call to abandon ship organically started. It was not an order by the captain although he would give that order within a minute of the blast, but the collective decision of small groups of men realizing that there was nothing more that they could do beyond trying to save themselves.

 

[fester]

0920 Honolulu time


The following message was sent to all Pacific and Philippines commands and the Department of War:


“MAJOR AIR RAID PEARL HARBOR BY JAPANESE CARRIER BORNE AIRCRAFT. BATTLE FORCE HAS TAKEN SIGNIFICANT DAMAGE. ALL PACIFIC FLEET UNITS ARE TO CONSIDER A STATE OF WAR TO EXIST AGAINST THE EMPIRE OF JAPAN. GOOD HUNTING.”

 

[fester]

December 7, 1941 0930 Honolulu time, EWA Field

The seven surviving Devil Dogs landed at Ewa. This morning they had twenty three modern fighter aircraft and eighteen were in flyable condition. Four were lost north of Oahu when Cerberus flight attacked the first wave, another four were lost when Charon flight attacked the first wave. Three were lost in the second wave. Three pilots had already been returned to Ewa after they parachuted from their fighters. Two more pilots were on board Navy ships after they had been fished out of the drink.

The seven pilots taxied their destriers to refuel, repair and re-arm. The goal was to get a combat air patrol over Ewa in the next forty five minutes as operations officers believed that a third strike could be generated from the planes that were in the first strike and that the third strike could appear in the next hour or so.

Ewa had survived the first two waves in relatively good shape. Almost all of her fighters had been able to get airborne although they took heavy losses against the Japanese Zero. The dive bombers were fortunately one hundred miles away when the first wave appeared, and they were able to get airborne again with 500 pound bombs before the runway was strafed by Zeros. Half a dozen Wildcats from VMF 211 were destroyed on the ground, three old trainers and a few hangar queens also were burnt husks. The anti-aircraft guns claimed at least five enemy planes.


South of Pearl Harbor, Enterprise and Saratoga were turning into the wind. Each would launch ten Wildcats to cover the fleet at Pearl Harbor while another three SBD's were launched for anti-submarine patrol. They had planned to enter the harbor late morning after their ferry mission to Wake but now they would stay south of the port and use the radar as a shield from any Japanese strikes.

 

[steamboy]

Conversly whilst the IJN are suffering worse air casualties by far, the US is also suffering a large number of pilots lost, at least those able to bail out can do so over friendly territory, although I don't fancy the chances of any Devastators if they are being thrown into any counter attack, the Dauntless was a superb plane but without escort, it too is just vulnerable against a Zero. But good lord those IJN casualties must be heavy. With their notoriously light construction, i'd not even say it was 50/50 odds for damaged aircraft to get home if they are too badly shot up. A few holes here and there is fine, anything more than that...

Shame about the California, she seems to have suffered the same kind of magazine deflagration that killed the Arizona, but with the locations swapped. The Arizona lost her bow, the California looses her stern. And arguably, she's the more valuable ship to looseas a fighting unit compared to a Pennsylvania class which were older and smaller.

 

[Zheng He]

Jaroschek errs badly here. He must not engage until his report has been clearly acknowledged by base. The warning he can provide is far more important than the damage his six fighters can inflict.

In fact, I would expect base to order him to stay clear, observe, and report.

Then again, he probably has the same glory hound attitude as the carrier pilots in the exercise who abandoned their anti-bomber CAP to furball with the strike escort fighters.

Put yourself in the shoes of a young fighter jock. You're up for a training flight on a sunny Sunday morning, getting ready to say "Hello" to some incoming USAAF bombers. Suddenly you are greeted by the sight of over one hundred inbound carrier planes from a country you didn't even know you were at war with. Any of us in that situation might suffer a bit of brain lock and let our most basic of training take over and that is engage. Of course a sane man in that situation does what Sir Robin did when danger reared its ugly head...

 

[fester]

December 8, 1941 0733 Wake Island

Eight Wildcats were scrambling. Radar detected a raid 80 miles away. The standing patrol of a pair of Wildcats was already heading to intercept the bandits who were flying at 15,000 feet and coming in from the direction of the Marshalls.

The six Nell bombers in the diversion force bore in. They knew that the Americans had reinforced Wake recently with fighters. Seaplane patrols had spotted American carriers near Wake the previous week. The main attack force was fifteen miles to the west and twelve thousand feet lower. The decoy force had as their target the flying boat base while their main purpose was to distract the American fighters. The main force would hit the airfield so that tomorrow’s strikes could operate with less interference..

 

[vl100butch]

So far it looks like Joe Taussig will keep the leg he lost OTL...

Fester, are you going to give a shout out to Pug Henry (as well as Warren and Brian)? He just lost the California (which based on your description will end up being scrapped on site, with her turrets either replacing damaged ones on other ships or being used as coast defense batteries like Arizona's were used OTL...)

 

[RyderWest]

Conversly whilst the IJN are suffering worse air casualties by far, the US is also suffering a large number of pilots lost, at least those able to bail out can do so over friendly territory, although I don't fancy the chances of any Devastators if they are being thrown into any counter attack, the Dauntless was a superb plane but without escort, it too is just vulnerable against a Zero. But good lord those IJN casualties must be heavy. With their notoriously light construction, i'd not even say it was 50/50 odds for damaged aircraft to get home if they are too badly shot up. A few holes here and there is fine, anything more than that...

Shame about the California, she seems to have suffered the same kind of magazine deflagration that killed the Arizona, but with the locations swapped. The Arizona lost her bow, the California looses her stern. And arguably, she's the more valuable ship to looseas a fighting unit compared to a Pennsylvania class which were older and smaller.

USS California (BB-44) was a Tennessee-class battleship, IIRC. Improvements that came after the NewMex-class was increased underwater protection and the battery guns being increased to 30 degrees rather than 15.

December 8, 1941 0733 Wake Island

Eight Wildcats were scrambling. Radar detected a raid 80 miles away. The standing patrol of a pair of Wildcats was already heading to intercept the bandits who were flying at 15,000 feet and coming in from the direction of the Marshalls.

The six Nell bombers in the diversion force bore in. They knew that the Americans had reinforced Wake recently with fighters. Seaplane patrols had spotted American carriers near Wake the previous week. The main attack force was fifteen miles to the west and twelve thousand feet lower. The decoy force had as their target the flying boat base while their main purpose was to distract the American fighters. The main force would hit the airfield so that tomorrow’s strikes could operate with less interference..

Come on four remains... don't fall for the damn trap.

 

[calvinhobbesliker]

So how many Japanese planes were downed over Pearl Harbor?

 

[Perky50]

I would wonder how many damaged Japanese planes will be collecting on the beach at Niihau?

 

[Zheng He]

I wonder if fester plans to have a near intact Zero found somewhere on the island of Oahu?

 

[Alanith]

So how many Japanese planes were downed over Pearl Harbor?

For the Japanese? Too many. That death spiral is going to begin sooner.

 

[steamboy]

So how many Japanese planes were downed over Pearl Harbor?

I counted 53 confirmed kills between fighters and AA fire, but that's what was written, I dunno how many the AA guns claimed or damaged. I'd say that pushes the kills up into the 60's if you add AA guns. And that's basically one whole carriers worth of shot down planes with god alone knows how many are badly damaged to not get home or be write offs if they manage to land.

With damage, the AA guns and distance, with the planes having to burn more fuel if they tried evading (I don't know how tight the fuel margins were for the to/from trip to Pearl) then the IJN could easily loose 80+ planes and their crews.

 

[Unknown]

Yeah, the Japanese are sorely going to miss those pilots here ITTL; hope the Philippines does better than OTL here...

 

[fester]

So how many Japanese planes were downed over Pearl Harbor?

A lot... There will be recaps later

 

[merlin]

So far it looks like Joe Taussig will keep the leg he lost OTL...

Fester, are you going to give a shout out to Pug Henry (as well as Warren and Brian)? He just lost the California (which based on your description will end up being scrapped on site, with her turrets either replacing damaged ones on other ships or being used as coast defense batteries like Arizona's were used OTL...)

I to wondered about Victor 'Pug' Henry (of Winds of War), due have his reward of a ship command when the California was kaput!

 

[fester]

USS Norfolk
A phantom ship?

One of the cruisers funded by the POD, St. Louis class

 

[Driftless]

While the American fighters have taken more airborne losses to planes and pilots than historically; they also have gained some early useful combat experience. Considering that Fester put the Wildcats and the P-40's in a shared fight against the Zeros; there should be some lessons learned about tactics(Thatch Weave v. turning dogfight). That would be a useful outcome at an earlier stage of the war than historically.

*edit* The Zeros from their own same formation should almost constitute a control group for the US tactical study in the coming weeks.