Keynes' Cruisers Volume 2

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Now at home recovering from my resent medical problems, so not a lot to do other than my exercises. Which gives me way to much time to think about AH, oh and drink coffee while looking at the local talent. Coffee shop is right opposite to entrance of supermarket, and less than 100 yards from home.

The attack’s on the Romanian oil fields, and I assume the eventual mining of the Danube will significantly reduce the supply of oil to the Germans. Things for them are going to get very tight much sooner than they did, and significantly reduce their ability to wage war. The biggest effects will be felt in the air and on the Eastern Front. By the time that the Anglo American forces get into Europe, it will be very hard for the Germans to pull off a Battle of the Bulge type counter offensive, there just will not be the fuel to do so.


In the Far East I would expect that by the end of 44, the Commonwealth Forces will have essentially cleared the Japanese from Malaysia. Siam and FIC, and be looking to land in Mainland China or one of the Islands of the coast. If only to provide a better entry-port, for LL, than dragging it over the Burma road. Three ships in one day can deliver more supplies than the road can in a week.RR.

Spending time at the coffee shop inspecting the local talent sounds like a great recovery activity to me.

I think the Germans in 1943 will heavily reinforce the defenses around the Romanian oil facilities with more AAA and fighters. The Allied air forces will continue to attack there but will suffer heavier losses. This threat to the Romanian oil may cause the Germans to further increase their efforts with Army Group South to capture Baku and its vicinity even at the expense of the other army groups.

I think if things go reasonably well the Commonwealth forces will be in Northern French Indochina toward the end of 1943.
 
Britain post war.


Let us look at the conflicts that Britain became involved with in the immediate post war years..


Greek civil war.


This was the start of the British collapse, as Britain had to pull out of her involvement, due to lack of funds. She had to hand over her responsibilities to the Americans, and thus all her influence in the area. First off, will there be a civil war as there was, or will it take a different form? Will Britain be so strapped for cash that she can not afford to subsidise the Greek government and provide the arms and equipment needed?

Likely no civil war at all. There is a working Greek government in Crete controlling already as many regular troops as ELAS had at its peak in 1944. Besides the balance between the resistance groups is likely to be quite different particularly given the proximity of free territory, both in the ability to support the resistance and in important people escaping to Crete. The mostly republican resistance groups rivalling EAM that in OTL mostly ended up either destroyed or forcibly absorbed to it in OTL will be far stronger in TTL.

The largest problem is likely what to do with the king, given his support of the 4th of August regime. The government in exile quickly shed most of them off OTL, even before Crete had fallen but nevertheless he wasn't exactly loved by the republican part of the population. His bad luck that the territory controlled at the moment is overwhelmingly republican. At a guess at a minimum he's going to be hard pressured to agree to a free referendum on the monarchy after the war and we are quite likely to see Theodore Pangalos and Themistocles Sofoulis spirited out to Crete, to play head of the army and prime minister respectively. Which George will absolutely hate but well... I suppose that if Churchill publicly promises union of Cyprus with Greece after the war, this is going to improve the king's position and chances at the refferendum quite a bit. Of course the colonial office would be against that as it was when this was proposed in 1941, although the foreign office was more amenable and Winston had proposed it as early as 1912.
 
Story 1646
Kuantan, Malaya November 8, 1942

USS Argonaut left the harbor. The submarine tender Holland had done her regular bang up job of keeping the large submarine mostly functional. Below her decks she carried enough food to feed the entire Bataan garrison for a day and enough ammunition to keep them fighting for a week. She also carried critical reinforcements impressed from Royal Navy ships. Rats had started to proliferate in the granaries in Bataan and they needed reinforcements.

Four dozen ships' cats were aboard the submarine. A burly seaman who still needed time to qualify for his dolphins had been assigned to keep those cats happy and clean. The captain expected to be able to deliver at least forty four of them but if these English tabbies were anything like his daughter's Maine Coon, he knew that his boat would be picking up at least one permanent crew member who would come and go as she pleased.

Two hours later, she cleared the defensive mine fields and began her journey to the northeast.
 
Story 1647
Cape Bon, November 8, 1942

PT-109 had a new skipper. The old skipper was recovering in a hospital near Bone from an appendectomy. The new LT was tall, lanky and confident as could be despite only arriving in theatre two days ago. Eight boats from the squadron were trawling the waters off of Cape Bon. Fires ashore had been lit by bombers and the combined Army Group artillery groups where the 1st and 8th Army had started to pound German and Italian hard points. Tunis was still a shambles with most of an Italian infantry division dug into the colonial port and refugees streaming out of the city to Allied lines. Most of the remaining Axis army however was on Cape Bon.

The wooden slasher slowly moved through the water at eleven knots. The other three boats in the division were spread in a line two miles long and they continued their patrol heading north and then east again. A sharp eyed look-out pushed his elbow into his new skipper’s ribs --

“Bumps, Bearing 340”

Five sets of eyes strained. Glasses were raised and heads slightly turned. Soon, two bumps became three. A light flashed off the stern of the torpedo boat and the rest of the division began to assemble on PT-109. The twin fifties and the sole twenty millimeter gun were manned, ammunition made ready as the four boats accelerated. The other division of the squadron had begun to sweep wide.

Eleven knots became eighteen knots. Soon three bumps became six. Two of those bumps came into focus as Italian torpedo boats, actually very light destroyers, came out to meet the American attackers. Star shells illuminated the four attacking coastal torpedo boats. By now, there was no need for radio silence and calls were being made to British and American destroyer divisions to cut off the convoy’s retreat. The four small merchant ships increased speed and their guns also began to fire star shells, quickly illuminating the flanking division.

Water spouts erupted around PT-109 as the engines whined and the screws dug into the water, pushing the boat forward at thirty eight knots. She began to wiggle, she skidded and tightly cornered into and out of turns, chasing splashing while still trying to close the range. Her four torpedo tubes were ready but they were far out of effective range. Steel splinters embedded themselves into the hull after a near miss. One of her companions started to make smoke to hide behind and the LT drove his boat into the enveloping smoke screen before emerging out of the far side on a straight course in.

By now the Italian escorts were split. One was fighting the diversion division while the other’s four inch gun was banging away at the flanker force. PT-109 still had not fired yet, the Oerlikon was theoretically within range while the Brownings were still out of range but the odds of hitting anything besides the blue sea were only slightly better than winning a hand with an eight high. They pressed in even as the escort’s anti-aircraft guns began to fire, sending bright tracers plunging into the sea. Less than 1,000 yards from the escort, PT-109 and PT-162 started their torpedo runs. The heavy Brownings began to chatter even as twenty millimeter shells walked from the sea into the hull. Leaks were not slowing the attack down. The Italian escort had started to turn away, attempting to open the range while decreasing the weight of fire heading towards her attackers.

Six hundred yards away, a few strings of bullets had hit the Italian escort before the replacement Skipper ordered the torpedoes to fire. In seconds, the gyros were stabilizing and then the black powder charges kicked the four torpedoes into the water. The second tube on the starboard side had a grease fire that one of the machine gunners needed to abandon his gun in order to extinguish. Even as the torpedoes began their run, the boat turned and every single horsepower available in the three engines went into the screws. The smoke generator started to pour smoke behind the fleeing boat as shells were still boiling the water around her. PT-162 joined her compatriot in the middle of a smoke screen.

Suddenly a tremendous noise was heard, a torpedo had struck home and exploded. The gunfire from the Italian escort had stopped and when it resumed, it was only from a few anti-aircraft mounts and not the heavy four inch gun. The other two boats of the division pressed in on their torpedo runs. Even as they were breaking through the smoke screen, all the crew members aboard PT-109 checked in; five were wounded, none too bad. Four had various splinters from the damaged hull in their arms and legs while the fifth, a gunner’s mate lost a chunk of his thigh to shell fragment. A tourniquet had stopped the bleeding and morphine had quieted his moans as the patrol boat began the second phase of the action, a hunt for the convoy’s merchant ships.
 
Story 1648
Department of the Navy, Washington DC, November 8, 1942


“Goddamn it; we’re giving you a blooming battleship for Home Fleet with almost no questions asked. You’ve had at least two of our big ships for almost the entire year.”

“You’re asking for something we can't give you”

“We’ll pay cash, or lend lease or whatever you want for them and provide our own crews”

An exasperated sigh filled the room. This was a conversation that had been going on for two weeks as the reports from Bataan after an inventory of supplies had shown that the effective food stockpile was far smaller than originally believed due to typhoon damage and rats. The Japanese blockade needed to be run if the garrison was not to starve to death. Forty five tons a day was the minimum requirement for food alone much less ammunition, fuel and everything else an army needed. A large effort was slowly coming together but interim efforts beyond the steady stream of submarines were needed.

A staff officer, a former yacht designer had come up with a solution. The British motor torpedo boat design was very flexible. Ripping out some of the guns and running a short crew, the basic design could run all the way to Bataan to deliver forty tons of cargo before needing to refuel. The US Navy just needed the Royal Navy to hand over anywhere from half a dozen to a dozen boats after they spent a month in a shipyard for a quick conversion.

And that was the sticking point, those boats were too goddamn useful for the Royal Navy right now.

So another hand landed on the table and the argument started again.
 
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Driftless

Donor
Maybe resurrect a few former rum-runner boats too? Of course they'd need a refurb and to be shifted half the world away....
 
Kuantan, Malaya November 8, 1942
She also carried critical reinforcements impressed from Royal Navy ships. Rats had started to proliferate in the granaries in Bataan and they needed reinforcements.Four dozen ships' cats were aboard the submarine.

Its been a common practice in the Philippines to eat rats. (This is not intended as a slur but it is a fact.) There is nothing wrong with eating the big plump healthy field rats that have fed on rice and other grains. Not like the filthy urban rats that feed on shit and garbage. Now those granary rats are also well fed on rice and such and would be an excellent meat supplement. Trap and catch as many as possible. The cats can have all the rest plus all the mice they can get too. Happy hunting!
 
Its been a common practice in the Philippines to eat rats. (This is not intended as a slur but it is a fact.) There is nothing wrong with eating the big plump healthy field rats that have fed on rice and other grains. Not like the filthy urban rats that feed on shit and garbage. Now those granary rats are also well fed on rice and such and would be an excellent meat supplement. Trap and catch as many as possible. The cats can have all the rest plus all the mice they can get too. Happy hunting!
Grain rats are a very inefficienct form of calories from grain. If they're available, eat'em but if the cats can kill them before they eat the grain, net calories from the warehouse last longer.
 
Department of the Navy, Washington DC, November 8, 1942


“Goddamn it; we’re giving you a blooming battleship for Home Fleet with almost no questions asked. You’ve had at least two of our big ships for almost the entire year.”

“You’re asking for something we can't give you”

“We’ll pay cash, or lend lease or whatever you want for them and provide our own crews”

An exasperated sigh filled the room. This was a conversation that had been going on for two weeks as the reports from Bataan after an inventory of supplies had shown that the effective food stockpile was far smaller than originally believed due to typhoon damage and rats. The Japanese blockade needed to be run if the garrison was not to starve to death. Forty five tons a day was the minimum requirement for food alone much less ammunition, fuel and everything else an army needed. A large effort was slowly coming together but interim efforts beyond the steady stream of submarines were needed.

A staff officer, a former yacht designer had come up with a solution. The British motor torpedo boat design was very flexible. Ripping out some of the guns and running a short crew, the basic design could run all the way to Bataan to deliver forty tons of cargo before needing to refuel. The US Navy just needed the Royal Navy to hand over anywhere from half a dozen to a dozen boats after they spent a month in a shipyard for a quick conversion.

And that was the sticking point, those boats were too goddamn useful for the Royal Navy right now.

So another hand landed on the table and the argument started again.

Therein lies the basic issue, most of not all of the current stuff that's practical isn't enough, and most if not all of the stuff that would be enough is not possible or practical, or in the case of a couple of suggestions is bordering if not outright ASB level stuff.

While it sucks for the US, the British aren't wrong either in their statements that the ships needed are of equal or more value elsewhere. I'm guessing the US could get them, but given the changed geopolitical circumstances and stronger British position ITTL, the US is going to have to make some major concessions.

And going further along, I think you're going to see this type of stuff come up with other issues or in other theaters as well. The British are still going to come out of the war weaker then the US and Soviets overall, but they're still going to be considerably better off then OTL.

I wouldn't be surprised if both parties can reach some sort of deal here, but I think if a deal is reached, it will be very, very favorable to the British. Possibly to the tune of tens of millions of Pounds(currency, not weight), if not more.
 
The biggest threat facing a resupply food convoy is air attack from the Japanese air forces units based in the Philippines. It has been estimated to consist of about 300 aircraft. Of course there exists other threats too but I believe the PI based aircraft are the biggest danger.

This is why a quick unloading scheme of some type or other is vital. It would allow the food ships to dash in under the cover of darkness from about 200 miles out from Bataan and withdraw to about the same distance of 200 miles away before sunrise.

This is vitally important because it will reduce the number of sorties per aircraft that the Japanese will mount to only one per airplane that day. To fly out the to where the U.S ships are speedily withdrawing, attack, and if still airworthy, fly home to refuel and rearm takes many hours. This will help to reduce the size of air attack the food convoy can expect to face.

If there are 300 airplanes in the P.I. how many would be available and suitable for an air strike against the American ships? Not all planes will be based in Northern Luzon. Some will be in the Visayas and others based in Mindanao hundreds of mile South. We could guesstimate that about half would be based in Luzon. How many are out flying patrols? Or undergoing repair or maintenance? Many of the planes stationed in the P.I. will be fighters. Perhaps half of them. You could sling a small bomb or two under a Zero but it's not a very effective dive bomber and the pilots would not have been trained for that task.

I think our food supply ships would be facing only at the worst about 30 to 40 dive bombers and torpedo planes. And unless this long range strike can be well coordinated then these attack planes may be arriving in 2 or 3 separate groups instead of all at one time. Seeing as how some units would be flying out of different airfields and then flying 250 to 300 miles trying to coordinate a combined strike would be almost impossible.

If the USN is determined to support the food resupply convoys then the most bang for the buck way to enhance their defence is to assign a number of Atlanta class anticraft cruisers to the convoy. These radar equipped ships would massively improve the air defense capabilities of this force. It would also greatly enhance their surface ship defenses too. Consider the number of and rapid rate of fire and accuracy of those radar guided 5 inch guns those CLAA ships could defeat anything less than a heavy cruiser.

And what will the Japanese pilots be dealing with? Not some moored or slowly moving freighters but destroyers and cruisers bristling with antiaircraft guns. Under attack these ships will have pushed their engines to the max. They will be roaring along at close to 35 knots weaving and twisting to dodge bombs and torpedoes. This would have to be the most difficult naval target in the Pacific.

Yes, the Japanese pilots might sink or damage 1 or 2 ships but I think they would lose well over half their planes and crews doing so. And these losses would be from the very best strike units based in Luzon. They are not likely to be reinforced anytime soon. That means there will be a diminishing air threat from P.I. land based air as further food convoys runs are pushed through.
 
Grain rats are a very inefficienct form of calories from grain. If they're available, eat'em but if the cats can kill them before they eat the grain, net calories from the warehouse last longer.

I agree. Use both methods to crush those rat bastards as quickly as possible. Go cats!
 
Department of the Navy, Washington DC, November 8, 1942

A staff officer, a former yacht designer had come up with a solution. The British motor torpedo boat design was very flexible. Ripping out some of the guns and running a short crew, the basic design could run all the way to Bataan to deliver forty tons of cargo before needing to refuel. The US Navy just needed the Royal Navy to hand over anywhere from half a dozen to a dozen boats after they spent a month in a shipyard for a quick conversion.And that was the sticking point, those boats were too goddamn useful for the Royal Navy right now.

That is a pretty good idea. Those boats have a shallow draft so they can get in close to the shore to expedite the unloading. They're are small and maneuverable so as to be hard to bomb. What type of British MTB in particular would they be wanting? How fast can it go top speed? But the British can't spare them.

What about using USN PT Boats?
 
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The biggest threat facing a resupply food convoy is air attack from the Japanese air forces units based in the Philippines. It has been estimated to consist of about 300 aircraft. Of course there exists other threats too but I believe the PI based aircraft are the biggest danger.

This is why a quick unloading scheme of some type or other is vital. It would allow the food ships to dash in under the cover of darkness from about 200 miles out from Bataan and withdraw to about the same distance of 200 miles away before sunrise.

This is vitally important because it will reduce the number of sorties per aircraft that the Japanese will mount to only one per airplane that day. To fly out the to where the U.S ships are speedily withdrawing, attack, and if still airworthy, fly home to refuel and rearm takes many hours. This will help to reduce the size of air attack the food convoy can expect to face.

If there are 300 airplanes in the P.I. how many would be available and suitable for an air strike against the American ships? Not all planes will be based in Northern Luzon. Some will be in the Visayas and others based in Mindanao hundreds of mile South. We could guesstimate that about half would be based in Luzon. How many are out flying patrols? Or undergoing repair or maintenance? Many of the planes stationed in the P.I. will be fighters. Perhaps half of them. You could sling a small bomb or two under a Zero but it's not a very effective dive bomber and the pilots would not have been trained for that task.

I think our food supply ships would be facing only at the worst about 30 to 40 dive bombers and torpedo planes. And unless this long range strike can be well coordinated then these attack planes may be arriving in 2 or 3 separate groups instead of all at one time. Seeing as how some units would be flying out of different airfields and then flying 250 to 300 miles trying to coordinate a combined strike would be almost impossible.

If the USN is determined to support the food resupply convoys then the most bang for the buck way to enhance their defence is to assign a number of Atlanta class anticraft cruisers to the convoy. These radar equipped ships would massively improve the air defense capabilities of this force. It would also greatly enhance their surface ship defenses too. Consider the number of and rapid rate of fire and accuracy of those radar guided 5 inch guns those CLAA ships could defeat anything less than a heavy cruiser.

And what will the Japanese pilots be dealing with? Not some moored or slowly moving freighters but destroyers and cruisers bristling with antiaircraft guns. Under attack these ships will have pushed their engines to the max. They will be roaring along at close to 35 knots weaving and twisting to dodge bombs and torpedoes. This would have to be the most difficult naval target in the Pacific.

Yes, the Japanese pilots might sink or damage 1 or 2 ships but I think they would lose well over half their planes and crews doing so. And these losses would be from the very best strike units based in Luzon. They are not likely to be reinforced anytime soon. That means there will be a diminishing air threat from P.I. land based air as further food convoys runs are pushed through.

Even with good AA and radar, one or two well placed torpedoes or large enough bombs and you're looking at upwards of 1,000 sailors and marines on a sinking cruiser. Any major capital ships, and I tentatively including cruisers given their size, firepower, and number of crew aboard, aren't going anywhere within 1,000 miles of the Philippines without friendly air cover to support them.
 
The 'big ones' as you call them would go out through the heads just like human crap!! The boats they are after are the Camper and Nicolson converted MTB' used for operation Bidford. I would suggest that if the C&N designs are given to the American PT boat builders a class could be rolled out in weeks using Packard engines.
 
After the raising of the siege of Leningrad a trainload of cats was sent to the city, to deal with the plague of rodents. The original feline population having been eaten.
 
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