Keynes' Cruisers Volume 2
- Thread starter fester
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Not to attack the USSR in 1943 thinking but the B29/B32 was the follow on, NextGen, to the B17/B24. It was the next step, much like you had the natural progression in fighters from the P36/P35 to the P40, then to the P47 and P51. Longer range, more bomb load, more defensive armament, new electronics (including Radar bombing capability). Remember the 29/32 was from the 1939 need to have a plane that would be better able to attack someone. The NextGen after the 29/32 was the 36/35 for heavies.
In your terms ... VERY heavily modified B-29
(1943 is too late for a new design and as I said B-29 could not be stopped earlier)
iOTL the turrets were removed in the field once the fire-raids started in 1945 any way
and of course,
the pressurisation systems were not needed for that method of mid-level bombing but could not be taken out iOTL
As part of the design of a new "mark" of B-29 in mid 43 it could be done (saving time and money and reducing weight)
Such a change would also have removed many of the delays and costs from the Battle of Kansas that were related to the quality of the Perspex, Glass and sealing )Perhaps not all since IRRC simple visibility was an issue though the thinner glass might help with that too)
However, IMHO they could have gone further and made similar changes to the engines to those done for (and in some cases BY) the British to convert B-24 high-level bombers into Very Long Range Maritime Patrol aircraft i.e. remove all the complexities for high-level flight while making simple adjustments increasing the range at mid to low level.
Since problems with the complex engines were a major aspect of the Battle that again would have saved time and money
IMHO a B29 optimised for night operations and mid-height could both "garden" and "fire bomb" at greater range
and be available earlier, in greater numbers AND for less money
BTW post WW2 both Japanese analysts and the US Bombing Survey calculated that earlier/heavier mining ALONE might well have shortened the war, though given the Japanese intransigence iOTL personally I have my doubts
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Daylight Strategic Bombing was a failure in Europe and against Japan. The shift to nighttime incendiary bombing was made because conventional high level bombing was not effective,
Well that is sort of yes and no. By 1945 Bomber Command was regularly striking within 600 yards of the aim point, that is sufficient to hammer an area target like a steel works, large factory, ship yard or a marshalling yard. Certainly the accuracy in 1942 was so poor BC were lucky to hit the right country but that improved massively over the years until by the end of the war it was a terrifying weapon of destruction.
It also served to force the Germans to divert massive resources to defending against strategic bombers from FLAK guns, night fighters, radars and control rooms, huge concrete FLAK towers and all the manpower to operate it. All of that was part of a death of a thousand cuts dragging resources away from the front lines shortening the war.
Without the 8th Airforce daylight campaign and the events leading up to Big Week the Luftwaffe would have been much stronger in the immediate run up to the invasion with dire consequences.
The claim that Strategic bombing was a failure is almost revisionist.
I was speaking specifically to bombing of Japan. Hap Arnold was unhappy enough that he relieved Hansell and sent in LeMay to make the 20th Air Force more productive. That to me is a signal that at least in Arnold's mind the high level bombing was not achieving its objectives.
I agree that bombing became more accurate as the war progressed. I tend to discount 1945 bombing of Germany as the invasions from both sides were well under way.
Sometimes based on the comments posted you would think that the UK could not have won WW2 with the equipment provided... posters don't like our small arms our rations, our tanks nothing is as good what the USA provided its troops.
A couple of things on Japan; Hansell found himself on the wrong end of the battle of the high altitude precision VS low level incendiary bombing lobbies, made even worse by the apparent inefficiencies of the early raids under his command partly due to the existence of strong jet streams (unknown at the time) that affected bombing accuracy when the B-29s were operating at the altitude they were designed for since there were no adjustments made to the bombsights or bombing methods to account for these.
As a sidebar; in "With Courage: The U.S. Army Air Forces in World War II" by Bernard C. Nalty he actually states that the last few of these high altitude raids made by the Mariana group under Hansell command was instrumental in the dispersant and subsequent lower performance of much of their aircraft industry. I think that with conditions so different from the European theatre they faced much the same learning curve that bomber command and later US 8th air force faced as they started operations.
Story 2392
Bay of Biscay, January 17, 1944
HMS Campbeltown crashed through the waves. The nineteen year look-out shifted his feet slightly to brace himself as the old destroyer reached the trough and soon started to climb to the next crest. Cold, green water swept the deck again. The look-out was at least somewhat protected a few feet over the flush deck. He would not be on the work gang that was assembling below and behind him to chip ice for twenty minutes. Above him the antennas kept on listening for German U-boat signals while a Liberator circled off in the distance as it sanitized a path for the convoy that had assembled at Freetown and picked up another two columns and four escorts from Gibraltar. A few more days and the thirty nine ships would be in Liverpool and the old destroyer would head to Belfast for a refit. The look-out looked forward to having money in his pocket and a seven day pass even as he looked across the wave tossed sea.
HMS Campbeltown crashed through the waves. The nineteen year look-out shifted his feet slightly to brace himself as the old destroyer reached the trough and soon started to climb to the next crest. Cold, green water swept the deck again. The look-out was at least somewhat protected a few feet over the flush deck. He would not be on the work gang that was assembling below and behind him to chip ice for twenty minutes. Above him the antennas kept on listening for German U-boat signals while a Liberator circled off in the distance as it sanitized a path for the convoy that had assembled at Freetown and picked up another two columns and four escorts from Gibraltar. A few more days and the thirty nine ships would be in Liverpool and the old destroyer would head to Belfast for a refit. The look-out looked forward to having money in his pocket and a seven day pass even as he looked across the wave tossed sea.
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Story 2393
Central Greece, January 18, 1944
The rifleman peered over the sandbag. There was nothing immediately in front of him. The company of New Zealanders was part of the reserve for the brigade. They had dug in near a crossroad a few hundred yards in the rear. Ahead of them, the three battalions of the brigade were in mutually supporting boxes of boxes. Each company had its own box with anti-tank mines and plentiful PIATS allowing them to hedgehog and receive both cavalry and armor. The reserves would counter-attack from either head-on or from a near hook while the surrounding boxes would counter-attack further up the stem of any penetration.
The rifleman checked his belt. He had all of his allocated ammunition, and quite a bit more. He gritted his teeth as a flurry of German howitzer rounds slammed into the road a few hundred yards behind him. They were firing at map coordinates, hoping to catch the reserves up and moving even as two companies of panzers and several battalions of panzergrenediers advanced along the valley. High above them, Ghurkas and mountain troopers were engaged in a deadly game of thrust and parry. That was a deadly side show as the Ghurkas controlled the heights and would be able to deny the Germans any good observation posts into the corps rear.
Suddenly, the call for cover was issued for the entire company. Twenty seconds later, the rifleman was on his knees and elbows with his hands holding his helmet tight. Every gun in the 2nd New Zealand Division and every gun from the two adjoining divisions fired six shells apiece on a narrow front . The ground shook, his brain rattled as artillery made a snowy morning into a maelstrom of smoke and dust punctuated by the crackle of tanks cooking off and men screaming as they had been scythed. The guns were silent for an eternity or twenty seconds before a second barrage targeted a line a football pitch further to the rear.
The rifleman peered over the sandbag. There was nothing immediately in front of him. The company of New Zealanders was part of the reserve for the brigade. They had dug in near a crossroad a few hundred yards in the rear. Ahead of them, the three battalions of the brigade were in mutually supporting boxes of boxes. Each company had its own box with anti-tank mines and plentiful PIATS allowing them to hedgehog and receive both cavalry and armor. The reserves would counter-attack from either head-on or from a near hook while the surrounding boxes would counter-attack further up the stem of any penetration.
The rifleman checked his belt. He had all of his allocated ammunition, and quite a bit more. He gritted his teeth as a flurry of German howitzer rounds slammed into the road a few hundred yards behind him. They were firing at map coordinates, hoping to catch the reserves up and moving even as two companies of panzers and several battalions of panzergrenediers advanced along the valley. High above them, Ghurkas and mountain troopers were engaged in a deadly game of thrust and parry. That was a deadly side show as the Ghurkas controlled the heights and would be able to deny the Germans any good observation posts into the corps rear.
Suddenly, the call for cover was issued for the entire company. Twenty seconds later, the rifleman was on his knees and elbows with his hands holding his helmet tight. Every gun in the 2nd New Zealand Division and every gun from the two adjoining divisions fired six shells apiece on a narrow front . The ground shook, his brain rattled as artillery made a snowy morning into a maelstrom of smoke and dust punctuated by the crackle of tanks cooking off and men screaming as they had been scythed. The guns were silent for an eternity or twenty seconds before a second barrage targeted a line a football pitch further to the rear.
Story 2394
Kiel, Germany January 19, 1944
The training U-boat was tied up at the pier. Below decks, petty officers were running several drills on repairing leaks and rapidly reloading torpedo tubes while silent. The officers were supervising and scoring both the instructors and the trainees. The captain and the quartermaster were ashore again.
Today, they were supposed to be at sea. Today, they were scheduled to take men underwater for the first time. Today they were supposed to train look-outs and navigators as they motored about on the surface to and from the training area. However, the squadron commander had cut back diesel allocations again. This current batch of trainees would see ten more days of dry land training and eleven fewer sea days before being sent to the operational squadrons in France, Norway and the North Sea.
The training U-boat was tied up at the pier. Below decks, petty officers were running several drills on repairing leaks and rapidly reloading torpedo tubes while silent. The officers were supervising and scoring both the instructors and the trainees. The captain and the quartermaster were ashore again.
Today, they were supposed to be at sea. Today, they were scheduled to take men underwater for the first time. Today they were supposed to train look-outs and navigators as they motored about on the surface to and from the training area. However, the squadron commander had cut back diesel allocations again. This current batch of trainees would see ten more days of dry land training and eleven fewer sea days before being sent to the operational squadrons in France, Norway and the North Sea.
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Story 2395
New London, Connecticut January 19, 1944
R-09 was secured to the dock. Two of her sisters had arrived just an hour ahead of her after a three day training patrol in Long Island Sound. The skipper, an LT with half a dozen war patrols in the Pacific, confirmed with the chief of the boat who had three war patrols supporting the Allies in North Africa that all was secured. The trainees had done well. They had made errors, but they were correctable errors where the correction would be indelible upon their hippocampus. These men had plenty of time left in their training cycle before they were sent out to the fleet boats, but when they arrived, they would not be lost lambs.
R-09 was secured to the dock. Two of her sisters had arrived just an hour ahead of her after a three day training patrol in Long Island Sound. The skipper, an LT with half a dozen war patrols in the Pacific, confirmed with the chief of the boat who had three war patrols supporting the Allies in North Africa that all was secured. The trainees had done well. They had made errors, but they were correctable errors where the correction would be indelible upon their hippocampus. These men had plenty of time left in their training cycle before they were sent out to the fleet boats, but when they arrived, they would not be lost lambs.
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These latest updates highlight the Allies putting to good use their material advantages. Whether in having sufficient numbers of and well supplied artillery batteries or having plenty of fuel for training the USN's new sailors. As compared to the paucity of the German logistics. Not enough fuel oil to train their new sailors adequately. The air raids on Ploiesti are paying off.
What's with the temporary jump with the threadmarks?
First it goes normally 2384, 2385, 2386 and then jumps to 3487, 3488, 3489, 3490 before jumping back down to 2391 and then goes on as it normally would.
First it goes normally 2384, 2385, 2386 and then jumps to 3487, 3488, 3489, 3490 before jumping back down to 2391 and then goes on as it normally would.
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Story 2396
Salisbury Plain, January 20, 1944
The whistle blew. The exercise was over. The umpires were now engaged in the most important pursuit; hot tea followed by education. This was the first time that the Belgian Army in exile had taken the field as a fully integrated combined force. The four brigades that had been garrisoning the south coast for almost three years now had been on an active training schedule since last September. Two rifle brigades in carriers built out of no longer needed M-3 Grant chassis and a tank brigade in American supplied Sherman tanks. The last brigade was still lorry mounted infantry. The Shermans had arrived last September and the Belgian division had received both the modified Grants and the Shermans in November. Mechanics had been getting trained with the American National Guard divisions since August.
Three hours later, exercise write-ups had been started and the short version of deficiencies on combined arms operations, battalion and brigade size maneuvers and communication insecurity had been noted. These messages were passed to both the First United States Army Group and the 21st Army Group. More time would be scheduled on the training ranges in between the National Guard, Territorial Army and regulars who all needed time to work out their own kinks with sweat instead of blood.
The whistle blew. The exercise was over. The umpires were now engaged in the most important pursuit; hot tea followed by education. This was the first time that the Belgian Army in exile had taken the field as a fully integrated combined force. The four brigades that had been garrisoning the south coast for almost three years now had been on an active training schedule since last September. Two rifle brigades in carriers built out of no longer needed M-3 Grant chassis and a tank brigade in American supplied Sherman tanks. The last brigade was still lorry mounted infantry. The Shermans had arrived last September and the Belgian division had received both the modified Grants and the Shermans in November. Mechanics had been getting trained with the American National Guard divisions since August.
Three hours later, exercise write-ups had been started and the short version of deficiencies on combined arms operations, battalion and brigade size maneuvers and communication insecurity had been noted. These messages were passed to both the First United States Army Group and the 21st Army Group. More time would be scheduled on the training ranges in between the National Guard, Territorial Army and regulars who all needed time to work out their own kinks with sweat instead of blood.
Driftless
Donor
Considering their state of preparation and armament, could the Belgians be considered ready for inclusion in this OVERLORD - when the time comes? Or, given the relative small size of the force, would it be too much of an administrative hassle for them to be front line material?
4 Brigades would be a short division. They would likely be attached to another force like the Poles, Free French or Canadians for logistical reasons if nothing else.
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