Keynes' Cruisers Volume 2

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by fester, Sep 13, 2018.

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  1. Cryhavoc101 Well-Known Member

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    Between Sonnonbaum, the Greek adventure and Crete the British Commonwealth forces under Wavell in the first half of 41 lost about 1.5 Divisions worth of manpower and over 5 divsions worth of heavy equipment (artillery etc) and transport.
     
  2. Killer in Well-Known Member

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    So instead of 3 British Field Armies the 2nd,8th and 14th. Will see up to 5 maybe when Commonwealth and Allied units are included? Say 1 in Italy, 1 in the Far East and up to 3 in NW Europe or perhaps 2 in NWE and 1 in the Balkans?
     
  3. jammci Active Member

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    A plan that was used bt the Western allies in 1943 to dupe Hitler and his high command that they were going to invade Greece rather than Sicily, involved getting a corpse and then dumping it off with a whole load of documents into the med and then the Italians picking it up
     
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  4. lgkmas Well-Known Member

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    Actually off Spain I think on the Atlantic coast and the Spaniards picked it up.
     
  5. Spencersj345.346 Member

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    Who then gave the relevant information to the Germans...just as the British planned
     
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  6. Threadmarks: Story 1956

    fester Well-Known Member

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    Belfast, March 21, 1943



    HMS Unicorn left her birthplace to shake down in warmer waters. Two destroyers were ready to escort the maintenance ship that looked remarkably like an aircraft carrier to Jamaica. Aboard were three squadrons of Seafires and a short squadron of Swordfish. They, too, were new to the fleet. The pilots were mostly new men with a few veterans of Taranto, Crete, Rhodes, Norway, Malaya and Timor providing experience and wisdom.

    Six weeks of tropical sun and then the ships would be needed at Gibraltar.
     
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  7. Threadmarks: Story 1957

    fester Well-Known Member

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    Near Taranto, Italy March 21, 1943



    The almost abandoned naval base was on alert. Radar and sound equipment had picked up over seventy Allied bombers were coming in from over the sea. Their course was unusual. They were too low and they seemed to be edging to the west of the port. There was little there besides fields and vineyards.

    Minutes later, the first C-47 loadmaster began pushing out dummies. Each dummy was clothed in US Army green and had several strings of firecrackers on their uniform. Every third dummy had a flare gun with a vial of acid ready to start eating away at the wire holding the trigger in place. Within an hour, a division’s worth of dummies were descending on the Italian countryside. In between the decoys were a dozen men who needed to meet up with cousins and friends from the old country to see if the rumors and intelligence could be true.
     
  8. Threadmarks: Story 1958 March 22 1943 Philly Naval Yard cancellations

    fester Well-Known Member

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    Philadelphia, March 22, 1943



    Up and down the river, the war was providing work. The docks were full of ships getting ready to bring supplies of food, supplies of fuel and supplies of shells to the armies preparing to lunge across the sea from the conquered base in Tunisia. Across the river in New Jersey, a convoy was being organized to head from the mouth of the Delaware to Halifax where the ships would join the great conveyor belt across the contested ocean. Upstream, tanks were being assembled and tested before being loaded onto flatbeds to Georgia, Texas, Kentucky and California where the armored divisions and army tank battalions eagerly awaited for a chance to train on the equipment that they would be taking to war.

    The Navy Yard was the heart of Philadelphia’s visible contribution to the war. Dozens of destroyers and lighter escorts had already been launched into the river since work picked up in 1938. Three battleships had been ordered. One, USS New Jersey was already working up. Wisconsin was at least a year from being ready to join the fleet. Her hull had not yet touched water. Illinois was mostly a plan instead of a steel reality.

    The last two ships would remain plans and hopes and dreams. Work gangs had been ordered off of Illinois. The contract had been terminated. The United States Navy would not need more fast battleships as her enemies had almost no battleships any more much less fast and modern battleships. She would be broken up on the ways and her materials and her construction slip would be used instead for amphibious assault ships. Wisconsin’s work crews had a new task. Get her ready enough to launch into the river and then freeze her construction. She was taking up valuable space and more valuable manpower. By the time there was no hope of a pennant in the city, there would only be half a dozen men assigned to the battleship’s hull. The caretakers would keep the grease thick and the hatches dogged without doing any more than that.
     
  9. Threadmarks: Story 1959

    fester Well-Known Member

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    March 23, 1943 Phulia, Bengal



    Everyone was at the market today. Grandmothers were haggling with opponents who had not given them a good deal in forty nine years. Mothers were shrugging their shoulders as they bought Burmese rice. Prices were a tad higher than they were last year but not too much, it was mainly taxes for the war. Their husbands were still in the paddies and fields preparing for the next round of plenty. Now their families were living off the last harvest until the next one was ready.
     
  10. Winestu Well-Known Member

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    The Spanish gave the info. to the Abwehr.
    Carnaris had a VERY good relationship with some of the higher ups in Spain.
     
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  11. Spencersj345.346 Member

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    Not the Whisky you monster.
     
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  12. sloreck Grunt Bear

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    After copying the documents and providing them to the Abwehr the Spanish gave them back to the British and Major Martin, RM, was buried with honors in a Protestant cemetery in Spain where he rests to this day as far as I know.

    Sad to see the Wisconsin not being finished, ITTL I haven't run the numbers but between the RN and the USN I assume there are sufficient BBs to provide naval gunfire support for amphibious landings. Nothing warms the heart of Marines like seeing 16" shells visiting enemy positions .
     
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  13. fester Well-Known Member

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    From the USN POV, the Iowas are no longer too relevant. They were a specialized design which trades a lot in order to get an extra four or five knots. The lesson learned at Makassar, Corsica and the Norwegian Sea is that big, heavily armored and heavily armed ships that are fast enough are better than big, slightly less heavily armored ships that are very fast.

    Their threat board has the following potential threats of modern battleships or battlecruisers:
    Italy --- 1
    Germany --- 0
    Japan --- < 3 and none in the next twelve months

    Britain has 5 modern battleships, the Soviets are dreaming about a new peace time building program but they have nothing modern in the fleet or under construction. The French have 2 modern battleships and 2 battlecruisers. Assuming the USN is not building against the RN or MN, the threat matrix is bare. And if/once the USN builds against the Soviet Navy, a ship designed in 1940 will/should be outclassed by a Soviet vessel designed in 1948, so a building pause makes sense. The USN will have eight modern battleships (2 NC, 3 SD, 3 IA) by 1/1/44. The USN is debating whether or not to continue with the Montana class
     
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  14. Jearom Well-Known Member

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    Here's hoping they hold out long enough for everyone to realize the age of battleships is over so they can build larger aircraft carriers to accommodate jets. What's the status of the OTL Midway-class design? Any hope that some of the bad sea handling characteristics can be worked out before it's finalized?
     
  15. RyderWest Spintop Isolated

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    I dont think Midway will be named Midway ITTL.... it will be named Makassar.
     
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  16. fester Well-Known Member

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    Right now, it is the Wake Island class....
    Flores Sea Ship #2
    Makassar will be ship #3

    Steel is scheduled to be cut for Wake Island in late summer 1943--- design will still have the stability issues that plagued the OTL Midway class.
     
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  17. RyderWest Spintop Isolated

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    Ooh, the theme is American victories in the pacific?

    Which battle was Flores Sea?
     
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  18. fester Well-Known Member

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  19. wally Well-Known Member

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    Confused by how 100K Belgians is 5 bridges, but 40K Australians is 2 divisions. Might have missed something in the comments in Vol 1

    Good to see they keeping the Alaska class :)
    While we know there are 3 or so Japanese Battleships with nothing more in the next 12 months, the USN does not and they just been surprised by the 2 big monsters. However if Wisconsin is parked then it will mean the same with Missouri as that was launched later.

    Looking at what was launched it would be interesting to see what they build on them post war.

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. TonyA Curmudgeon like, but nastier

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    Large numbers of Belgian 2nd echelon troops will be employed in the making of chocolates and IPA's...
     
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